Tweezer is better for the old fox cars and sniper is great for our cars. I use sniper and it's very easy to use. If you don't know alot about tuning then Sniper would be the easiest one for you to use.

 

Also consider the SCT PRP, which needs to be added onto an Xcal2 or 3. Although it has a steep learning curve, there are many resources out there for it.

 

My vote goes for a PRP. Find a tuner willing to walk you through using it, and you will have good results.

 

My vote goes for a PRP. Find a tuner willing to walk you through using it, and you will have good results.

i appreciate the advice but im not looking for something that i dont have to have somebody else change the tune every time i change something, like pulley size and so on. i want to make changes and test it on the spot.

 

Check out the training video Lasota Racing sells.

http://www.lasotaracing.com/

 

but isnt that whole setup almost 800 bucks plus another 75 for the booklet explaining the software. and i think the sniper is in the 400-600 range including the dataloger. the tweecer starts at 380.

 

Yeah that is true, from a monetary standpoint the Sniper seems more reasonable. The SCT PRP is good for someone who already owns an Xcal 2 or 3

 

I like the SCT. I had someone do the initial tune and now I can change the little stuff.

 

Just remember, you get what you pay for. I get a few PMs a month from people wishing they would have taken my advice on the PRP, instead they went with the Sniper stuff, and have problems.

 

I know you have a lot of knowledge on this with as much tuning as you do. Would you mind sharing some of the key differences that make the PRP better than the Sniper? I currently have a SCT chip and have thought about getting an X-Cal and PRP as well. Is there a better option for data logging when using the PRP or is the X-Cal the best way to do it?

 

The SCT datalogging is the best there is currently available. It has it's issues at times, but you can log the information needed to tune a car properly.

Sniper has two products, a point click kinda software deal that works well on a stockish car, and they have a software more like the PRP.

Your kidding yourself if you think you can PROPERLY dial in a modified car by selecting your mods in the software and having a tune auto generated with you. You need a tune setup for your mods, and then you need to adjust the tune based on feedback from the PCM and wideband. You could generate a file from the point click software and then dump it into there other software that is like the PRP, but from the few calibrations I looked at, alot of parameters were missing, and the datalogging software was really lacking.

Tuning is not simple, no matter what software you use. I'd alway recommend learning as much as you can, and ask a bunch of questions. I answer tuning questions day in and out, and help several PRP users. IMHO, thats the ONLY way to "do it yourself".

 

I have used the Anderson PMS, the Tweecer RT and SCT.

My Tweecer RT is for sale, let me know if you are interested. It worked well but I'm not good at tuning and it's steep learning curve with the Tweecer.

 

Eric,

How does the software marry the car??? Or does it marry the xcal2 and the xcal marry the car/VIN?
If you sell the car does the software have to go with it?

 

The handheld is what marrys the car. When you buy a PRP, your hardware key allows you to only tune the processor code for your specific car. If you buy AMZ2 (04 Cobra tune) you can tune as many of those as you have handhelds for.

 

The Sniper Special Forces package does a lot more than any handheld, and provides usable options for "real" tuning.

The fine tuning dialog lets you control spark over three rpm ranges (500-2500, 2500-4000, and 4000-redline), and it is done right by modifying the Spark Borderline table, in the specified rpm range, and only at higher loads so as to maintain fuel economy while cruising. The global spark modifier settting changes the Global Spark Adder scalar so as to apply to all rpms. loads. etc.

Fueling adjustments affecting the Stabilised Open Loop Fuel table can also be made for each of the three rpm ranges, and global part throttle and full throttle fuel modifier settings will apply changes to the low and high (respectively) injector slope settings in the same manner that a custom tuner might do.

In addition to these specific changes Special Forces modifies a number of other OEM settings, based upon their considerable experience. I picked up 6 rwHP peak, and 5 to 20 rwHP across the mid and upper midrange with a tweaked Sniper SF tune as compared to my previous handheld's tweaked tune. And since I upgraded to the full-blown Commando system I have added another 4 HP peak and dialed in the mid-range with considerable gains there as well (and a 2-step rev-limiter, and fixed the hot start problem).

No affiliation here other than being a very satisfied customer...

 

No doubt it does more than any handheld. I am not a fan of ANY of the hand held adjustability. Lets see that point and click software put in a magic fuel pump voltage table..... It can't, because it takes someone with experience in reading the datalogs, and making the correct adjustment.

 

I am not certain I understand your point. You are of course correct that it (Special Forces) cannot do that, however is there any $380 package that can? Spending more money will very often get you something that happens to be worth more.

Sniper Commando ($630) which comes with SF, or which may be had as an upgrade to SF, can do all of those magic sorts of things or any other thing that the PCM/tune is capable of doing.

Also, there are very few if any systems out there that offer an upgrade path...

 

My point is, most people shouldn't be adjusting things they don't understand to start with. And giving someone a tool that lets them just plug in values and generate a tune, when they don't really understand what they are doing could have really bad results. Very seldom can you just drop a maf transfer function in and run with it. It will need to be tweaked and perfected. If the engine is hopped up a bunch, the cold start might need adjustment, etc etc.

Might as well start out with a full blown tuning software, and study and learn how to use it.

 

Might as well start out with a full blown tuning software, and study and learn how to use it.

Somebody didn't read the whole post.

 

I still don't get it...

Of course "people shouldn't be adjusting things they don't understand to start with", however that doesn't mean that they are incapable of learning how to do it--and a big step in that learning process is acquiring the the tools. How are they supposed to learn if those of us who "know better" never even offer then the opportunity to fail?

You know how we all learned to walk and talk? By falling down a lot and being laughed at. Failure is the most effective learning tool there is. Why are you so concerned that someone might blow up their engine? I guarantee they will have learned something in the process.

Thomas Edison was once asked if he was disappointed by his "string of failures" in developing a working incandescent lamp--at first he didn't understand the question, but once an assistant "translated it" for him, he responded "There have been no failures, I now know 107 things that do not work."

You see I am old (62), and grew up in a different time when people learned to do things on their own. No one ever "taught" me how to weld, I bought a welder and figured it out and over the years added MIG, and high frequency TIG, and plasma cutting.

There is no rocket science in any of this. These things were built by humans and there is absolutely NOTHING in tuning a modern automobile that cannot be done by an average run-of-the-mill human that can read and understand what they read.

Whoops, I just realised I eliminated 1/2 of the people under 30 with a single statement--maybe you're right and I should just shut-up and live out the rest of my geezer existance while the rest of the world swirls down the bowl because no one ever taught them how to think and learn...

They have simply been conditioned by government run schools to believe that they cannot do anything. until some superior "trains" them.

See, never set off a geezer when it's close to bedtime...

 

I still don't get it...

Of course "people shouldn't be adjusting things they don't understand to start with", however that doesn't mean that they are incapable of learning how to do it--and a big step in that learning process is acquiring the the tools. How are they supposed to learn if those of us who "know better" never even offer then the opportunity to fail?

You know how we all learned to walk and talk? By falling down a lot and being laughed at. Failure is the most effective learning tool there is. Why are you so concerned that someone might blow up their engine? I guarantee they will have learned something in the process.

Thomas Edison was once asked if he was disappointed by his "string of failures" in developing a working incandescent lamp--at first he didn't understand the question, but once an assistant "translated it" for him, he responded "There have been no failures, I now know 107 things that do not work."

You see I am old (62), and grew up in a different time when people learned to do things on their own. No one ever "taught" me how to weld, I bought a welder and figured it out and over the years added MIG, and high frequency TIG, and plasma cutting.

There is no rocket science in any of this. These things were built by humans and there is absolutely NOTHING in tuning a modern automobile that cannot be done by an average run-of-the-mill human that can read and understand what they read.

Whoops, I just realised I eliminated 1/2 of the people under 30 with a single statement--maybe you're right and I should just shut-up and live out the rest of my geezer existance while the rest of the world swirls down the bowl because no one ever taught them how to think and learn...

They have simply been conditioned by government run schools to believe that they cannot do anything. until some superior "trains" them.

See, never set off a geezer when it's close to bedtime...

i personally agree with you. my dad is a truck driver so when he wasnt home to bestow his seemingly limitless knowledge upon me i had to figure it out myself. and so far it has worked out pretty good. not to mention it seems that you learn alot more by doing it yourself rather than listening or watching somebody else. the first time i had to put a clutch in a front wheel drive import did take alot longer than i would have liked but i learned from the experience and can do it in half the time now.

so im with cliff but at the age of 20, i still have alot to learn and plan on learning as much as i possibly can. im saving for forged internals and am planning on building a custom turbo set-up for the car (soon hopefully)

 

I provide free custom tunes to all my Sniper customers , Power adder cars sometimes need a little more than the Special Forces provides right off the bat , but it will provide a driveable and safe tune though , but this is why I provide free custom tunes

 

i have a twin 57mm turbo's. im guessing the special forces will not have everything i will need to get it tuned right. i had planned on using the commando pack and using the special forces for the base map to get it running.

 

My SCT PRP has never let me down and i woulnt trade it for anything else.

 

I don't think that anyone would have a problem learning to tune if someone had a willingness to learn, and a source of information.

Tuning a stand alone that comes with instructions is much easier to learn than a reverse engineered Ford PCM. There is a little tuning knowledge here and there, but for the most part, alot of it is just wrong.

I don't think someone should jump right in and try to tune a car themselves with no help or no knowledge. Yes you fall when you are learning to walk, but your not gonna be out a few grand when you fall, you just get a couple of bruises.

If you know how to tune, it doesn't matter much what you would use. I can start from scratch, without using a generated base tune.

I don't have a problem with any "real" tuning software, but when someone clueless buys a piece of software that has just some drop downs, and they expect their car to run like one that has been truly custom tuned by someone that understands fully what they are looking at, there just is no comparison.

 

so there is no hope for all of us "clueless people" and we should throw our money at "true tuners".

I will say that yes, someone that does this kinda thing for a living will be alot more proficiant and will be able to do it in a fraction of the time and have a dead on tune.

But all of that has nothing to do with the whole reason i started this thread. All i was asking for is if anybody had used the two stated programs and what they thought about them.

Nowhere was it stated that i think i can use a drop down menu to have a dead on tune. I know that there will be a steep learning curve and I openly welcome it. Thats all part of learning a new skill.

I am not worried about the cost of blowing up my stock motor because i plan to rebuild it some time in the future anyways. I i do have a problem and something goes wrong. its not much of a loss to blow up a junk bottom end that will get thrown out later anyways.

And even though most people are not experts, having some knowledge about a/f timing, intake temps, head flow, cam lift duration and lsa etc. can all help understand basic engine principles. And yes, i know there is so much more that goes on inside the big air pump. But to say clueless is a little bit rude to say the least.

anyway, i have already made up my mind so its pointless to continue.

 

I wasn't being rude. You can do it yourself, but I recommend having someone knowledgeable that can help you get started, and to call on when you have issues.

 

I want to learn how to do brain surgery!! I watched it done in the Discovery channel and it did not look that hard to do LOL!!

 

I want to learn how to do brain surgery!! I watched it done in the Discovery channel and it did not look that hard to do LOL!!

I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night!