[4sdvenom]

Thank you sir, I appreciate it

 

[jrgoffin]

Thank you sir, I appreciate it

My pleasure - hope it helps.

If you have any questions about your upcoming project, don't hesitate to throw them up here - someone is usually around that can answer them in a timely manner.

 

[jrgoffin]

Now that the warm weather is finally rolling in, today was a perfect day to get ready for it by draining the Rotella "break-in" oil and making the switch to the Mobil1 0W-40. With just under 700 miles on the engine, I figured it was as good a time as any, even though I typically give new engines about 1,000 miles before I make the switch. With all the idle time this engine has had when I wasn't able to drive, the mileage was close enough.

This was my first oil change with the billet oil filter, and it made the process real simple (details on the filter back on Post #506). Cleaning it was akin to the process used on a K&N filter, so some generic degreaser and a trip to my laundry tub was all that I needed. It probably took me longer to blow it out with compressed air after than it did to rinse the cartridge, which still wasn't that long.

With the Maximum Motorsports 4-point brace bolted on to the Steeda K-member, it has to be swung out of the way to get at the drain plug, but that is no big deal as well (three bolts and the washers out, with one left in to swivel it). The latest version of the Canton pan has the drain plug in the center rear, whereas the original '00R pans placed it off to the side - where there would have been easier access. Anyway, the brace is out of the way before removing the plug:

After that, the filter came off relatively easily, except that the base was on a bit more snug that what I had thought initially - oops. That was no big deal since the housing and cartridge was easy to slide off while letting the oil drain out of it. On that note, there was a heck of a lot less oil pouring out around the side since I imagine the steel mesh inside allows the oil to collect lower in the case rather than being packed around the paper mesh of other filters.

This was left on the cooler body after the rest was removed (a small flat-head screwdriver inserted in to one of the flow passages made it easy to get it loose):

I also wrap the steering rack boot in aluminum foil to keep it from getting cruddy, and that also allows the oil to drain smoothly out and in to the pan. As an alternative, I have meant to pick up a Form-A-Funnel to try out, but always forget about it. In the meantime, the foil works great for the small oil river that comes out of the filter!

For anyone that has contemplated whether these billet filters are worthwhile, I'd give them a thumbs-up for sure. Not only was it nice not having to pitch a factory-like filter, it was good to get a look at the cartridge and the magnets to see some small amounts of "material" that could, and had, accumulated in there (just a bit on the magnets).

Putting it back together is a cinch as well once you lube the o-rings and then just screw it all back together. Just in case, I used a small magnet to get some of the crud off the filter magnets, then blew a bit more air through it one last time just for the heck of it. Before I spinned it on, I also filled it about halfway with clean oil. Here are the parts, along with the M1 oil, of which I used 8 quarts:

Interestingly, I noticed that start-up oil pressure with the Rotella 15W-40 was about 105 PSI, whereas it is about 95 with the M1 0W-40. With the better cold-flow pumpability of the new oil, it was reasonable to assume this would be the case. I did grab a sample of the Rotella oil as well, and will be sending it off to Blackstone again this week (the first UOA report came out real well, so I expect the same here). When those results come back, I'll be sure to post them up.

Also, I made sure to empty the oil separator since I haven't done so since it was installed last year. This tank really works (more on it in Post #651 from the previous page)! Unlike the "popular" one I had tried out, there would only be a slight film of oil in the bottom of that each year (probably about as effective as an air compressor water separator), but I had a noticeable accumulation in the bottom this time. This hopefully means much less oil coating the intercooler.

The first start with the synthetic lube was perfect, and I have to say this engine is ridiculously quiet. Other than the slight tap of the injectors (much less than the OE 39# versions), there really is a nice smoothness to it, which I am perfectly happy with! It's also completely dry underneath, so there are no leaks or drips, which is even better. On a noise note, I had been asked on more than one occasion to grab a video clip near the tail-pipes, and I'll get to that sometime soon. Otherwise, I am looking forward to having some more fun with it this year for sure.

 

[eschaider]

For those who haven't read Joe's entire thread his pistons were built with a zero offset on the wrist pins.

The reason most DD engines use an offset pin is to minimize piston slap so the owner / customer does not complain about the broken parts sound of cold start up piston slap in his engine. Properly assembled a zero offset pin will not produce the piston slap most of us would prefer not to hear / have. The trick is properly assembly.

Large PTW clearances and poorly matched piston skirt cam will produce slap. Reasonable PTW and proper piston cam will mitigate or more often than not render piston slap inaudible. Biggest advantage to zero offset pins is stronger pin bosses and the ability to put any piston anywhere.


Ed

 

[Edmisten1]

For those who haven't read Joe's entire thread his pistons were built with a zero offset on the wrist pins.

The reason most DD engines use an offset pin is to minimize piston slap so the owner / customer does not complain about the broken parts sound of cold start up piston slap in his engine. Properly assembled a zero offset pin will not produce the piston slap most of us would prefer not to hear / have. The trick is properly assembly.

Large PTW clearances and poorly matched piston skirt cam will produce slap. Reasonable PTW and proper piston cam will mitigate or more often than not render piston slap inaudible. Biggest advantage to zero offset pins is stronger pin bosses and the ability to put any piston anywhere.

Ed

This is interesting and a subject never brought up when I ordered my set from Nick. He never asked if my car was a DD...is it reasonable to assume he just figured it was and built the pistons with offset pins..?

Joe's car is certainly a DD. Why would he order zero offset pins? Color me properly confused :sly:

 

[408Stang]

I talked to Nick at Gibtec about this when I ordered mine and he built a very small amount of offset into mine... About half of what they normally would. I also have no startup slap noise.

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[eschaider]

This is interesting and a subject never brought up when I ordered my set from Nick. He never asked if my car was a DD...is it reasonable to assume he just figured it was and built the pistons with offset pins..?

Joe's car is certainly a DD. Why would he order zero offset pins? Color me properly confused :sly:

Offset pins are a design consideration that Detroit uses almost exclusively on every engine they produce. The reason is the reduction in piston slap the offset provides for 4032 forgings if the PTW starts a bit big or gets a bit big in service. Additionally it reduces the number of concerned customers who ask their local Ford service center why their engine is broken (they are hearing piston slap).

4032 forgings do not grow as much as 2618 forgings and as such will begin to give audible signs of piston slap with small increases in PTW. 2618 forgings grow considerably more and require additional PTW to accommodate the growth. If the PTW clearance and the skirt camber are not "right" the 2618 forgings will exhibit audible signs of piston slap when the engine is cold. Non slipper skirt designs will aggravate the piston slap issue. The quick and dirty fix for the problem is to offset the wrist pin.

When Detroit offsets pins they also offset the pin boss to maintain equal and uniform pin boss support on either side of the wrist pin. When aftermarket piston manufacturers offset pins they do not offset the pin bosses. This creates a piston with a 'thin side' on the pin boss tower. The thin side on a pin boss tower is most likely where an offset pin piston will fail. This is what one of those failures look like;

This is a picture of a piston that has not yet failed.

When you look at the pin boss tower at the red arrows you can see the dramatic change in tower integrity that an offset pin makes. The blue arrow shows the additional weight removal from the forging die design that provides such a tender spot on the piston. If you look closely at the good piston you can see where the thin wall side of the pin tower is already showing signs of discoloration from heating.

Unless you specifically asked Nick for offset pins your pistons were built with on center pins and a full skirt design. This is the most desirable piston design for our type of usage / operation. Your pistons are more than up to the task of handling virtually any type of power you intend to throw at them Jeff. This type of design engineering is just one of the many design steps that were done for our engines well in advance of anyone's order.

You are more than good to go. Like the song goes, 'don't worry be happy'.

Ed

 

[Edmisten1]

This type of design engineering is just one of the many design steps that were done for our engines well in advance of anyone's order.

Yep. I know how much of a fan you are of these guys so I was never the slightest bit worried about it. Just curious, that's all :good:

 

[jrgoffin]

I knew my comment about how quiet (and smooth) this engine is, would get picked up on. It really is amazing how well it is running, and the zero-offset wrist-pins are absolutely perfect. I'll admit that I was a bit apprehensive about the idea at first, but Ed easily convinced me there would be no issues and he was spot on with the design (for anyone on the fence about it, there is nothing to worry about).

Other than my "mistake" of skimping out on the garden sprayer pre-oiling process, the slight bit of clatter I heard on the very first start-up has been long since forgotten. In my own defense, I figured that "extended" cranking would get the oil everywhere it needed to be, but if I could do it over again, the bottle would have been the way to go. In any case, this engine is running better than what Dearborn supplied me with, although I am sure the new owner of that mill will get a lot of good years out of it (it only had about 22,000 miles on it and was well cared for).

For those that still want the OE-ish wrist pin offset for whatever reason, I'm betting Ed has made sure that Nick and his crew will ensure there will be plenty enough material around the boss to alleviate the weak spot like shown in the picture above. Then again, since the new design is showing to be effective, there really is no need to have it any other way. Continuing to be happy with it for sure.

 

[Eatonualive281]

What is the "garden aprayer"method exactly?

 

[408Stang]

The Garden Sprayer Method refers to making a device to pressurize the oiling system before the first start up. The garden sprayer pump is used to create the pressure to push the oil into all the tiny areas of the engine. You just need to replace the end of the sprayer with the fitting to go into where the oil pressure sensor is, along with a ball valve to release the pressurized oil once you pump up the sprayer.

I got tired of pumping and added a fitting to the top of the bottle to fill it up with my air compressor. I used about 20 psi and it seemed to get the job done. I pumped about four quarts of oil into the engine using this method and then added the rest the regular way.

Hope this helps.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

 

[eschaider]

When you choose to use the garden sprayer approach you want to exercise a little caution with the air pressure. Many garden sprayers are intended to handle around 10 to 15 psi max. Check yours to be certain what it was rated for. If you exceed the manufacturer's recommended operating pressure with the use of an air compressor you risk blowing up the tank and potentially getting injured in the process. 15 psi is normally more than adequate to get the job done.

When using an air compressor it is very easy to overdo the tank pressure, not so likely when you pump it up by hand. I tend to fall down on the chicken side of the fence with these sorts of things so 20 psi raises my pulse a few notches.

Be prudent don't take unnecessary risks.


Ed

 

[jrgoffin]

I should have definitely clarified the whole "garden sprayer" pre-oiling method, but it sounds like everyone is squared away. Had I gone that route in any case, I would have just used my Motive Power Bleeder since it could have easily been adapted to the un-used port in the oil cooler adapter. Adding to that, and as Ed mentioned, the pressure could be kept fairly low - around 10-15 PSI which is the norm when bleeding the brakes.

In any case, the latest UOA came in from Blackstone and all looks well according to them. The Zn & Ph levels are higher with this oil (probably mentioned that earlier in the build) which made it a good choice for break-in. Even better, no coolant or fuel in the oil. Looking forward to seeing how the M1 0W-40 fares, but it will be doing its thing until about this time next year. Time to put some more miles on!

 

[eschaider]

Great test results Joe! That comes from the attention to detail and the TLC you used in your assembly.

For those who are following this thread, the Blackstone Labs oil analysis is the best barometer for knowing how your engine is doing mechanically. It is cheap money, easy to do and if you go to their web page they will even send you the gizmo to put the oil sample into — hard to beat that!


Ed

 

[jrgoffin]

Just over 1,000 miles on the engine now and it is running fantastic as expected. No plans - for about the third year in a row - to get to many car shows, so it's been a bit tougher to put on more miles. Hopefully I'll keep plugging away as long as we get breaks from rain.

The only gremlin lately was the alternator (one of my custom units) which when tested, was somehow drawing about 250A. Not sure what was going on with it, but the voltage output was dropping and it was getting toasty. The owner of the shop that built it thinks one of his guys might have inadvertently assembled the higher amp version for me when I just wanted the standard 160A upgrade. Fortunately they built me a spare 160A version that I had on the shelf and it is now installed and working perfectly. The other should be back soon once they straighten it out and I'll keep that in the box just in case.

On that note, my $0.02 is that the real high output alternators on these cars are just not necessary (135A up to 160/170 is perfect). Pushing them up to over 200 just means more power is required to turn them, and they generate a whole lot more heat. The other 160A (with a 2-1/8" pulley) is functioning beautifully and all is back to normal:

 

[Edmisten1]

Good stuff Joe...as always. Our motors were finished up about the same time with mine running just a little earlier than yours IIRC. I've got about 3100 miles on mine. My oil analysis from Blackstone at the 3000 mile change here a couple months ago looked very similar to yours...combination of the King SI Series bearings plus normal new engine break in. All is well. I REALLY need to remember this thread as I must be the luckiest Cobra owner on the planet: not a single alternator issue to date lol. When mine eventually croaks, I need to remember this :salut:

 

[04DeadShort]

And I must be the unluckiest lol. I've owned 4 Mustangs and have been through at least 15 alternators. I went through 5 on my 89 Coupe.

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[jrgoffin]

Good stuff Joe...as always. Our motors were finished up about the same time with mine running just a little earlier than yours IIRC. I've got about 3100 miles on mine. My oil analysis from Blackstone at the 3000 mile change here a couple months ago looked very similar to yours...combination of the King SI Series bearings plus normal new engine break in. All is well. I REALLY need to remember this thread as I must be the luckiest Cobra owner on the planet: not a single alternator issue to date lol. When mine eventually croaks, I need to remember this :salut:

The King bearings definitely have a role in the nice UOA's. I'm sure glad to have them in mine and am thankful Ed has such good things to say about them. Anyone building one of these engines is wise to seek out King - especially when you can put the one-piece thrust bearing in place. Now if I can just get out for more drives...!

And I must be the unluckiest lol. I've owned 4 Mustangs and have been through at least 15 alternators. I went through 5 on my 89 Coupe.

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It seems to be one extreme or the other with these cars, but I've been relatively lucky, even back to my Fox days. Not sure how my custom unit ended up being of the 200A+ variety, but the 6G units do tend to work much better when in the 160A range (for those that don't have the desire to buy a Mechman or Nations version). In any case, the OE 105A output of the 6G is just weak, but it appears there are now options for the much better 3G versions that are 135A. They are a tight fit and the mounting bracket needs a bit of clearancing, but it's another way to go.

Some details are at the end of my Alternator 101 thread. The guy selling them is coincidentally named Ken - I'll touch base and see if he wants to add more details and maybe some contact info.

 

[soap]

On that note, my $0.02 is that the real high output alternators on these cars are just not necessary (135A up to 160/170 is perfect). Pushing them up to over 200 just means more power is required to turn them, and they generate a whole lot more heat. The other 160A (with a 2-1/8" pulley) is functioning beautifully and all is back to normal:

Good info Joe. I have been very fortunate too to still be on the OEM alternator, however I recently switched to a 200 amp from Justin Wheeler because I now have 75 amps being used up between my fuel pumps and IC pump. So I think your statement of "(135A up to 160/170 is perfect)" really depends on the specific car. For a relatively OEM build I would agree with you.

--Joe

 

[jrgoffin]

Good info Joe. I have been very fortunate too to still be on the OEM alternator, however I recently switched to a 200 amp from Justin Wheeler because I now have 75 amps being used up between my fuel pumps and IC pump. So I think your statement of "(135A up to 160/170 is perfect)" really depends on the specific car. For a relatively OEM build I would agree with you.

--Joe

Fuel pumps are probably going to be the biggest draw for sure. For me, I have the BAP, a decent sized Amp/Sub combo in the trunk, gauges, Vampire, laser jammer, radar detector (hard-wired, of course), wideband controller, plus probably a couple other oddities and I'm sure 160A is more than enough. I've actually never inquired as to the draw on the big fuel setups since I didn't go that route, but I was sure glad to just swap the current "high-output" alternator back in to avoid all the drag and heat!