[04DeadShort]

I know for a fact my wifes 02 GT had a slinger and it was a Romeo engine. But all these cars was built by humans and some could very well not have got installed. Like Ed and others have stated, its not a necessity but it does help. Its a rough environment right there at the seal area. And its a inexpensive part so put it on while your there

 

[eschaider]

The slinger/dust shield is essentially an elective installation, Jeff. Your engine is going to run fine either way.

The presence or absence of the slinger will have the most impact the next time you freshen the engine or more accurately the next time you use that crank in a fresh build. If you use the slinger the amount of time you will spend cleaning up the rear oil seal area on the crank along with the likeliness of an oil leak will be decreased if you use the slinger. The only other distinction is the engine is a little easier to disassemble when you don't have to remove the slinger first.

Bottom line — your call ...


Ed

 

[Edmisten1]

The slinger/dust shield is essentially an elective installation, Jeff. Your engine is going to run fine either way.

The presence or absence of the slinger will have the most impact the next time you freshen the engine or more accurately the next time you use that crank in a fresh build. If you use the slinger the amount of time you will spend cleaning up the rear oil seal area on the crank along with the likeliness of an oil leak will be decreased if you use the slinger. The only other distinction is the engine is a little easier to disassemble when you don't have to remove the slinger first.

Bottom line - your call ...

Ed

Yeah issues like this there tends to be so much information and advice that it is almost too much. I talked to a guy I know here locally who has been and still is a service adviser at the local Ford dealership for the last 20 years. He said these weren't used until 2005. I'm not saying he's right or wrong. What I am going to go with is that my engine did not have this present when it came from the factory so I think I am just going to leave well enough alone. I know the engine will be fine with or without it. Thanks.

 

[jrgoffin]

It's a $10 seal - why skip it?

Considering the part number originates from '96, I'd be skeptical of the claim that they "...weren't used until 2005". It's probably a matter of some engine builders on the Niche line leaving them off occasionally for whatever reason. For as inexpensive at it is, and for what it does, it's a no-brainer to pop it on.

 

[Edmisten1]

It's a $10 seal - why skip it?

Considering the part number originates from '96, I'd be skeptical of the claim that they "...weren't used until 2005". It's probably a matter of some engine builders on the Niche line leaving them off occasionally for whatever reason. For as inexpensive at it is, and for what it does, it's a no-brainer to pop it on.

Yep...you're logic is sound. No argument here

 

[408Stang]

I know this is about a build, but this thread is what got me to buy this tool... So I thought it might be appropriate to sell it here too... For someone else's build...

So I used my Cobra Engineering tool today to install my upgraded timing chain dowels... I have to say it is an amazing piece... Worked flawlessly.

So now I'm selling the jig tool because I don't anticipate ever having to do this again.

Asking for $100 shipped... Comes in the case with the drill bit and tap, as seen in the picture.

I'd prefer PayPal... Just send me a PM

 

[eschaider]

Never say never Mike ...


Ed

 

[Quicktime_GT]

On the examples I've seen, the rear seal on our engines is a dynamic hydro-thread low friction design. It's a fully molded elastomer that doesn't use a Teflon lip, or a garder spring.

Looking at the sectional view below (not actually our seal, but a similar design), you can see that the seal is made up of two "lips," the primary sealing lip, (left) and a (likely non contacting) dust lip (right). The primary lip is what keeps oil in the engine while the dust lip (excluder lip) has a sole purpose of keeping dirt and debris from making contact with the primary lip.



Have a look at the photo below, in this photo you can begin to see the dynamic hydrothreads in our actual seal design:



Think of the seal as a nut and the crankshaft as the bolt. As the shaft turns, the seal is actually pumping oil toward the oil side of the seal:



With this type of design, the seal functions by it's dynamic function with an intent of reducing the overall friction applied to the shaft (As opposed to simply applying friction to a single contact point [ think garder spring / micro lip axle shaft design]) In doing so, it also becomes sensitive to contaminates as something foreign could raise the lip or creates a "bridge" across the hydrothreads resulting in leakage.

Most warranty failures I reviewed during my previous position were examples where a significant amount of debris had been ingested - luckily for our seal, most of us won't be exposing our car to situations where this could happen.

A slinger is designed to interact with an axial excluder lip to form a non-contact labyrinth. The purpose is mainly to direct the fluids (slurry, dirt and sand particles) from the exterior away from the seal face. A slinger without axial excluder lip on the seal still helps a little bit, but not as much. There are many applications which do not utilize a slinger, however, having a slinger in place most definitely supports the intent and keeps the seal clean and free of debris. Typically, it's seen as more beneficial on the front of an engine where the seal sees more exposure.

My Vote: use the slinger if you can, if you can't, it's no big deal. The most important thing to keep in mind when installing the seal onto the shaft is to keep the shaft seal from rolling over and to keep things clean

Now that seal designs have progressed, there are much better designs available - if someone happened to have the shaft OD and the rear cover / casting seal bore ID I could look into it a bit..

 

[408Stang]

Very nice explanation and pictures... That should put that topic to bed.

 

[sparky1562]

Oil Slinger.

I took this picture the other day when I disassembled my 96 Mark VIII. I assume this is the oil slinger. The seal was clean, the slinger, not so much.

 

[eschaider]

That is the best argument for not leaving it out of a build, Herb! Thanks for posting the pic and another Thx to Neil for the great explanation and pics.


Ed

 

[JamesHell]

Now that seal designs have progressed, there are much better designs available - if someone happened to have the shaft OD and the rear cover / casting seal bore ID I could look into it a bit..

I get 3.635" for the crank and 4.245" for the cover.
If you find a better seal that fits the crank but not the cover maybe I could make a new cover.

 

[408Stang]

Okay this brings up another question:

Is the billet rear main seal retainer from MMR worth the money. I've read some negative comments about it. Specifically: It isn't machined properly where the bolt holes go through the oil pan requiring the use of generous amounts of silicon for sealing, rather than relying on the oil pan gasket. Secondly, it is advertised as increasing the strength of the block, but there have been no reports of stock unit failures.... So is it just eye candy?

Also the same goes for a billet crank trigger wheel. The later model ones are stamped steel... I can't find any reported failures of the stock stamped steel piece... So once again... Is it just a "nice thing to have", or is it something imperative like a billet geared oil pump, or upgraded timing chain dowel pins?

Lastly, my Gibtec Pistons should be done this week. I'll post some pictures when I have them.

 

[mvk13]

I've had my differences with MMR, but I've run their rear main seal/brace with a fel-pro Teflon seal for 3 years now and have never had any problems with sealing. Can't speak to the reinforcement part...above my pay grade. :')

 

[jrgoffin]

I just purchased a new rear main seal retainer from Ford and saw no need to get an "upgraded" version. Same goes with the crank trigger wheel (the earlier cast versions were the problem, not the stamped steel).

Need to degree the cams soon so I can add more to this thread, but all the extra insight from guys following this is still appreciated. Otherwise, I had the chance to borrow one of these over the weekend in the Detroit area and had a blast - don't want to get too temped:

 

[mvk13]

Man what a great weekend! How many tanks did you go through? :-D

 

[jrgoffin]

Man what a great weekend! How many tanks did you go through? :-D

Just had the Shelby for part of Sunday, actually, but enjoyed every minute of it. Went through not quite half a tank in not a lot of miles, so the fun factor was definitely up there. A nice way to wrap up this year's driving, but I'll be looking forward to the "new" Terminator in the spring once this new engine is in!

 

[Edmisten1]

Just had the Shelby for part of Sunday, actually, but enjoyed every minute of it. Went through not quite half a tank in not a lot of miles, so the fun factor was definitely up there. A nice way to wrap up this year's driving, but I'll be looking forward to the "new" Terminator in the spring once this new engine is in!

Off topic...but how did that thing run..?

 

[jrgoffin]

It ran! This is what a Mustang should be, and the 8,200RPM redline is no joke. Every bit of the car was a blast (especially with the cooler temps) and the brakes will scare the hell out of you - in a good way, of course. Now back to reality...

 

[eschaider]

What was the low speed throttle response like Joe?


Ed