[jrgoffin]

Another beautiful job by Gibtec! Sounds like more and more orders are coming in, so be sure to set something aside for Ed's royalties

Now back to our regular program...

Planning to get started this weekend with degreeing the cams, and at the very least, should have the driver's side done. Will be sure to get some pics and document the process as much as I can, for at least that side. With any luck, I'll have some of that up in the next several days.

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In the meantime, since MMR is running a sale on the "GT" roller followers, I decided to order them. Their price is about $190 for 16, which really is a great deal (don't forget you'll need two sets!). The Tousley or Tasca price for them is about $20 for each arm ($320 for 16!), or they also sell the kit under the FRPP p/n M-6529-MSVT, which is about $225 for 16.

I was curious as to what benefit these really offer, and even though they were probably something I didn't really need, they couldn't hurt. With as much that has gone in to this engine, why skimp out at this point! These are supposedly stiffer, also have a deeper seat for the lash adjuster, and are about 4 Grams lighter each (roughly 88 Grams vs. approximately 92 Grams according to my scale). In any case, here is the official blurb from FRPP:

It was also interesting to look these up under the latest Ford p/n, which is 4G7Z-6564-AA, since I discovered they actually have their roots in the 4.0 SOHC V-6 from the late 90's. I'm not sure who the original supplier is, but they are also made by Melling, and have had part numbers updated through Ford a couple of times already. In any case, here is a chart I made that shows what vehicles these followers fit, with the Ford part numbers along with the alternates beneath it (Mazda & Land Rover also got in on this as well!):

Also, the "standard" followers are still available through Ford for about $15 each, under p/n F8AZ-6564-AA. The Melling p/n is MR-929, and they also come up under Sealed Power R-1096, just as an FYI.

Anyway, here are some comparison shots along with a new DOHC follower that came off my current heads (those go back to '96 and fit just about every V-8 modular engine out there). The first picture is a profile view of both, with the GT version on the top. It looks upside down compared to the other follower:

Bottom view, where you can also see the difference in depth of the lash adjuster seat (the GT follower is on the left). It's easy to see that it is more compact, and the roller also seems to be a bit sturdier if it matters:

Top view:

Close-up of the lash adjuster seat. Also there is no central oiling hole in it like the "standard" DOHC arms, which supposedly diverts more oil to the rollers - always a good thing (the smaller oil passage faces forward toward the cam lobe). The use of the TFS tool on the solid lash adjuster will now have to be done with a spare rocker until these go in (unless one is to set that lash adjuster length beforehand):

The valve stem end is about the same depth for both (I can measure them exact if anyone is curious), but on the GT rocker, the tangs that center the valve tip are actually two fingers that are bent back. Apparently this has worked just fine, since they feel rock solid, although the design seems a bit unusual:

Anyway, once the degreeing process is done, these followers will be set in place with the use of the new springs compressor tool. More to follow!

 

[jrgoffin]

Another quick update that actually goes back to Post #47 from late September: the misplaced front timing cover hole. I actually never got around to drilling and tapping it, but since tomorrow is cam degreeing day, I wanted to knock this out. Even though the timing chains and gears are mounted, it was easy to just pop the tensioner and guide off, then just lay the chain loosely out of the way so I could get the drill plate on.

Coincidentally, James H. added another hole to his original guide pin drill plate to tackle this, but I found that my one-time-use plate worked perfectly as-is. Since this hole is not as precise, it was easy to attach the plate with one bolt so I could get it where I wanted (the upper mounting hole on the plate is slotted, so that helps). Here it is mounted and ready:

This hole was a cinch to tackle, and again, you don't want to drill any deeper than about 12mm (with the plate thickness of 13mm, I marked my bit at 25mm). Basically, as long as the hole does not go beyond the base of its pad, you are fine. There are probably a couple millimeters to play with, but you risk breaking in to the coolant passage if you get crazy with this. Also, the drill bit James includes with the plate is the one I used here.

Here it is with the threads all cut, which I did by hand without the use of the plate for alignment (M8-1.25, with the tap also from James). From this angle you can just make out the depth, but again, it doesn't go beyond the thickness of the pad - can't emphasize that enough. Once the timing cover goes on, the single 40mm bolt resides here, and I won't have to mess with slapping any RTV in the empty hole!

 

[Onelfastlride]

Okay this brings up another question:

Is the billet rear main seal retainer from MMR worth the money. I've read some negative comments about it. Specifically: It isn't machined properly where the bolt holes go through the oil pan requiring the use of generous amounts of silicon for sealing, rather than relying on the oil pan gasket. Secondly, it is advertised as increasing the strength of the block, but there have been no reports of stock unit failures.... So is it just eye candy?

I bought and installed the MMR rear oil seal plate. Your concerns are correct.

The bottom of the MMR plate is flat and straight across. If you look at the bottom of the OEM stock oil seal plate in has bosses cast into it to accommodate the oil pan bolts and thus the oil pan gasket in the rear steps in and goes around the rear oil pan bolts. So in my opinion the MMR plate requires silicone sealant across the entire bottom of the plate, not just at the corners like the OEM. Additionally the MMR plate does not follow the sealant groove in the back of the OEM plate. At the top portion of the OEM plate there are multiple paths for the sealant groove. The MMR plate has a single groove following the outside of the plate only which does not seal at the top against an 03' iron block.

I will be removing and re-installing the OEM piece. It's another case, of an aftermarket part being similar to OEM but not the exact same.

 

[P49Y-CY]

Another quick update that actually goes back to Post #47 (Page #4) from late September: the misplaced front timing cover hole. I actually never got around to drilling and tapping it, but since tomorrow is cam degreeing day, I wanted to knock this out. Even though the timing chains and gears are mounted, it was easy to just pop the tensioner and guide off, then just lay the chain loosely out of the way so I could get the drill plate on.

i remember those "aluminator" short blocks and low-compression long blocks being available from ford racing from about 2007-2009 (iirc?) although people were having problems with the crank/harmonic balancer/timing cover clearance on those long blocks (esp early on), it would be cool if those blocks were still available already machined for the terminator timing cover and also with the knock sensor bosses already removed.

just one thing way down on my long wish list lol

 

[jrgoffin]

If you can score one from a wrecked '05-'10 3V GT, it's an even better deal. Grinding down the knock sensor bosses and drilling the timing cover hole is a no-brainer, especially if you pick up the newest guide plate and upgraded pins from James.

FRPP did have some problems early on, but I think that was an assembly issue that they figured out - in no way does it detract from the strength of them. I'll still take one of these over a Teksid!

 

[jrgoffin]

All done dialing in the cams and buttoning up the front of the engine. Many thanks - again - to Ed with his saintly patience for getting me going on the degreeing process. As most would say, it's a head scratcher when you read about it, but once you dive in, it all makes sense and flows naturally. Since it was quite detailed, I'll take some more time over the weekend and get this updated with more pictures and information for anyone that is hesitant to undertake this themselves.

For now, ready to install the cam followers and cam covers:

I did also want to make a small update pertaining to the front cover and the odd bolt that needs the extra hole drilled: turns out I was a bit too conservative with my initial depth of 12mm and probably could have gone to 16mm or more (Ed mentioned that James has drilled deeper without breaking in to the coolant passage, but I definitely wanted to err on the side of caution). Anyway, I discovered that my 40mm bolt bottomed out just a hair early, especially since the timing cover gasket didn't fill up as much extra space as I thought.

Simple enough solution: use my grinder to take down the leader and shorten the bolt just enough that it would have extra clearance. If anyone else going this route decides to use this bolt, apparently there is more material back there to drill, but I did want to pass this along in any case. Here's the bolt after that process, which took just a couple of minutes and worked perfectly (a picture of the un-altered bolt is back on Page 4, in Post #47):

Once that was taken care of, the freshly powder-coated cover bolted on easily and the front oil pan bolts went in after. More to follow over the weekend!

 

[2001fobra]

I'm definitely watching this build. Also curious to see more how you tackled the cam degree process

 

[04DeadShort]

That powder coated timing cover looks amazing!

 

[jrgoffin]

That powder coated timing cover looks amazing!

Thanks! It looked pretty decent despite being used, but since I was coating the steel plate that fits between the block and bell housing, I figured I would throw this in as well. I wasn't sure about the silver at first, but it did come out pretty nice.

 

[jrgoffin]

Here goes my attempt at laying out the process of degreeing the DOHC cams. I'll do my best to explain everything, and if there are any areas where I goof up any details, I'll do my best to clear it up or hope that Ed will jump in and add his expertise! I'll also try not to be wordy, but face it - this is not something that can be spelled out in just a couple paragraphs.

Overall, I was actually surprised at how uneventful it was. Despite some brain fog while Ed initially talked me through the driver's side, once I went back a few days later and re-checked that side, it all fell in to place which made finishing this very straightforward. If you are hesitant about doing it, squash those fears since it really is not as complicated as what many make it out to be. Adding to that, if you are spending big money on one of these engines, it just makes sense to take this extra step, especially since the factory gears can lack precision.

I will add right off the bat that one must have the right tools for this to make it flow smoothly, so here's a quick list:

- Degree wheel (including pointer)
- Degree wheel crank mount
- Piston stop (also can be made with an old spark plug)
- Dial indicator (magnetic base is part of the TFS accessories kit below)
- OTC cam kit (#6498)
- Spare rocker arm (not an issue if using the OE set)
- TFS accessories kit, which includes the solid lash adjuster (#90100).

Once you are set up per the Ford shop manual (or FRPP kit instructions), you are basically just checking each bank at 0.050" before and after the max lift, then adjusting (i.e., advancing or retarding) each cam to where you see fit. As you read all of this, feel free to grab the instruction set from Sean Hyland that you can go back through for another nice summary: View attachment Cam install 4v.pdf

Anyway, the first step is to set the cams up so the timing marks on the secondary chains (gold links) are at the 12 O'clock position with the cam keyways at 6 O'clock - all referenced to each cylinder head deck. Again, I used the adjustable Cloyes gears, but they went on in the "straight up" position initially, the same way as the OE components. Another picture from several pages back for a reminder:

The primary chains and gears will go on after, with the marked links keyed to the crank gear and the primary sprocket. The FRPP timing kit has a nice manual that lays this out (http://fordperformanceracingparts.com/download/instructionsheets/fordinstshtm-6004-a464.pdf). Also, the image below from the Terminator engine assembly manual shows it quite well (despite the crank key drawn in the wrong position - it will be at 315° instead). You can also see all this in my pictures throughout this thread.

After that is done (you can actually leave the passenger side primary chain off since you'll have to remove it to adjust the driver's side anyway), you'll mount the degree wheel and pointer. I used the ProForm crank tool with a 1.25" ID (SB Chevy model, #67491) and made my pointer out of a heavy wire coat hanger. The pointer is mounted in one of the water pump holes, and I matched the degree wheel at TDC there to get going. In order to be accurate, you also need to use a piston stop to verify true TDC (I had purchased mine from Summit, #900189 for about $7).

Checking true TDC is easy. First, turn the crank about 90° clockwise (a ½" breaker bar fits in the crank socket) then insert the stop in to the #1 spark plug hole. From there, continue turning the crank until the piston contacts the stop and then record the degree wheel reading. Next, turn the crank back counter-clockwise until the piston again hits the stop and then record this number. You'll then split the difference and adjust the degree wheel to half of the new number (after you pull the piston stop out, of course). This was accomplished here by loosening the knurled nut on the ProForm tool and turning the degree wheel slightly.

As an example, if one reading is 100°, and the other is 104°, you are 2° off (104 - 100 / 2), so would adjust the wheel by 2° towards the higher number once you are back at TDC. If you want to verify what you just did, turning the crank with the stop installed will get you the same degree reading either side once it has been set correctly. Get good at this since you'll do it many times! Also, you need to take all readings from the wheel as a value from TDC: think of it as two 180° sides and it will make sense. Another view of my wheel along with the ProForm tool:

Starting with one exhaust valve on the #6 piston, you'll set up a rocker arm along with the TFS solid lash adjuster (the cam will need to be on its base circle, so you will have to turn it until it gets to that point). With the rocker in place, you use the long allen key to spin the lash adjuster up until the rocker just makes contact with the cam lobe. You only need to use a finger and thumb to spin the allen key, so don't get carried away and overly preload it. Once the rocker is in place, turn the crank back until you are once again at TDC. If you initially turned the crank clockwise, go slightly past TDC counter-clockwise, then back clockwise (the direction of engine rotation) to TDC so the chains are pre-loaded. Here are two pics of a rocker along with the allen key inserted in the oil passage to access the lash adjuster (I only took one pic of it in an intake arm, but you get the idea):

From here, you need to set up your dial indicator - which is the most annoying part of this. The TFS kit really helps out since you get a metal plate that you mount with a cam cover bolt (M6-1.0), and it also comes with an extension for it that is needed to reach the valve spring retainer. Two important points here: get the pointer as parallel to the valve stem as you can, and then pre-load the dial indicator accordingly. Since the OE & '98 Cobra cams have a lift of under 0.400", I pre-loaded my dial indicator to 0.500" which is seen on the small INNER DIAL (it is marked in 0.100" increments, so 0.500" is at its top):

As an FYI, you will start with the driver side exhaust cam, then move to the intake, followed by the passenger exhaust then passenger intake. Be sure to have a note-pad and a calculator handy as well. More coming up shortly.

 

[eschaider]

Spot on, Joe.

Awesome documentation job!


Ed

 

[JamesHell]

Ill add some good advise here as I just finished doing one twice (long story).
WRITE EVERY MEASUREMENT DOWN! And do it in order as you make changes.

What happened is I made a mistake on the RH side exhaust. Then nailed the intake. Went back to the exhaust only to find out it was way out.
Of course this ruined all the work I did on that side. But I had everything documented. So I went back redid the math and found where it was right and was able to get the exhaust and the intake dialed in less than a hour. Which anyone who has done this knows is quite a bit less time than it takes.

 

[Quicktime_GT]

Thanks for the details and photos..

This is very helpful for the rest of us!

 

[eschaider]

I was admiring your photos Joe when my eyes fell on the head studs in the photo below;

The stud in the red circle (and its brothers) looks like it is about one turn short of full thread engagement in the block. Where/when possible the target thread exposure is 1 to 2 threads above the nut. The pic gives the impression that the stud is about one full turn short of bottomed. FWIW there have also been blocks that have had shallow head stud bolt holes which may have been the issue with yours.

If there is additional thread available in the block and you want to correct the anchoring in the block, you can take advantage of it w/o throwing the head gaskets out. Simply loosen the studs one at a time, in torque sequence order, screw the stud lightly to the bottom of its threaded hole and retighten the nut to your target torque value.

Ford has drilled our block bolt holes quite deep and ARP has provided a comparably long threaded ends on their studs. The stud is 11 mm which is esentially 7/16". For aluminum you want to shoot for a minimum of 2.5 diameters of thread engagement whenever possible. If you can get to 3 diameters - even better. At 2" the thread engagement is about 4.5 diameters. I suspect (don't know for sure) the reason Ford went overboard on thread engagement was the fact their fastener of choice was a TTY bolt. The additional thread engagement provides durability for that type of fastener. For guys like us, that use studs, the threads do not get the same type of wear they receive from a bolt being torqued. Yours are more than adequately anchored so the adjustment to get proper thread exposure above the nut is more cosmetic than reliability related.

Ed

 

[jrgoffin]

I thought you might comment on the studs, Ed. This block might be a bit unusual since it came from a PP car, but all the studs are bottomed out and every bore is the exact depth. I thought something was weird with the original 8740's, but they sat exactly the same. I did call ARP and talk to a tech, who assured me that as long as I had full thread engagement, especially if the studs were bottomed (very lightly, by the way), I would be fine. It looks unusual, I know, but hopefully it won't be an issue.

I also asked about the possibility that the studs were mixed up with a 3V set, but I was told those were even longer. At one point, I had a set of OE TTY head bolts, and I wish I would have measured the UHL to compare. Those may have not fit at all, but again, I hope it's just a quirk of this one particular block.

Should be in for the night soon and hopefully will have another post up in a bit with more pics.

 

[jrgoffin]

Back pedaling slightly: when I worked on the driver's side the first time, I should mention that I didn't take any pictures since I wanted to stay focused while trying not to hog too much of Ed's time. After a couple days off, and "re-degreeing" that side, all the readings came out about exact from what they were the first time. This is where I took the pictures to use here. Since I was on my own and had to put some brain power in to it, everything sunk in.

Again with the dial indicator set up, and a better look at the mounting plate. It takes some trial and error, which definitely can be frustrating as you try to line it up along with getting the preload right. Again, you are going to measure the cam lobe position at 0.050" lift, before AND after the peak (the lobe peak will be indicated when the dial indicator needle stops moving since it has reached maximum lift). To get started on the #6 exhaust lobe, turn the crank CLOCKWISE and watch the dial indicator OUTER needle spin until it stops and is about to change direction (in my case, the small inner dial wound down from 0.500" to about 0.100" since the cam lift is close to 0.400"). Once the large needle has stopped, turn the outer ring until you zero the indicator. Looks like this:

At this point, you can glance at the degree wheel just to see roughly where lobe has stopped, and this will give you a ball-park idea of the centerline of that lobe (which you will calculate momentarily):

Here is a shot of the lobe at max lift, which I hoped would also show the tip of the dial indicator extension resting on the valve retainer (didn't notice until after the fact that I had clipped the picture). Hopefully my engine building skills are better than my photography skills:

Next, turn the crank back COUNTER-CLOCKWISE about one full turn on the dial indicator (0.100" on the small dial), and then load the chains by turning it CLOCKWISE slowly until the dial shows 0.050". This will now be your first reading - from the DEGREE WHEEL- the valve opening taken BEFORE TDC (I screwed this up a couple of times during the first round, but luckily Ed caught it!).

Write that number down then continue turning the crank CLOCKWISE slowly until the dial reaches zero then moves back to 0.050" - the valve closing after peak lift is reached. Write the second number down from the degree wheel. This may sound confusing, but here are two pictures of what you'll see - one number is 78.5° & the other is 148.5°, although my camera angle is a hair off:

You then add those numbers up and divide by two to find the actual cam centerline: 78.5 + 148.5 / 2 = 113.5°. Perfect for the spec of the '98 Cobra exhaust cam, and right where I wanted it.

Now, move the dial indicator to an intake valve on the #6 cylinder still (you can use any valve on whatever cylinder you are working on). As it turns out here, the intake cam measurements were right on the stock specs (same procedure as above). Since they were going to be advanced approximately 12°, it now required removal of the chains on that side to adjust the gears. I had also previously removed the passenger side primary chain just so it was out of the way.

At this point, I was still a bit confused about these Cloyes gears since I hadn't analyzed the keyways in relation to the indexing dots. Ed has sent a document about them which illustrated the advancing and retarding process, but it will click when you mount the gears and see how the keyways line up. Basically, each keyway (opposite of the indexing dot) is skewed slightly - an imperceptible difference with the naked eye - which allows the slight rotation of the cam to match. Turning the cam slightly clockwise advances it, and counter-clockwise retards it.

Here are some pics from Ed's document ( View attachment Cloyes gear tutorial.pdf ). The first one illustrates each keyway across from the dot, which will then be placed under the gold links of the secondary chains. Important: the cam keyway is always down and the gold link is always up, above the dot, when setting the gears.

If you were installing these gears "straight up", the Cloyes gear keyway is in the exact same spot as the OE gear keyway. Here is a comparison drawing:

As an another example, if you intended to retard a cam by 1°, here is how that indexing dot would sit under the gold link (the gear is turned clockwise by two teeth in this case). A close look at the "1R" keyway at the bottom of the gear indicates that it is slightly offset to the right of the centerline, which turns the cam just a bit counter-clockwise, retarding it. This is the same for all the other keyways in that they are also offset, based on their corresponding alignment dot opposite of them. If you are still confused, not to worry, it will be easy to see in pictures.

Up next: aligning the Cloyes gears to achieve the intended advance.

 

[Wicked46]

Joe, how far off were your intake cams? I'm using the same 98 Cobra cams you have and I used them with my last motor as well. I just used them in the OEM position without degreeing.

 

[408Stang]

Maybe I missed it... Don't you need a solid lash adjuster so you don't measure crush of the lash adjuster versus compression of the valve spring? Either that or a very soft valve spring... Just enough to keep the valve closed, but light enough to not cause crush of the lash adjuster since there's no oil pressure keeping it pumped up.

I'm thinking of the procedure for degreeing a typical pushrod engine here. I had a solid cam roller lifter instead of the hydraulic ("squishy ") roller lifter to ensure absolute accuracy of measuring the .050 cam lift.

 

[jrgoffin]

I lucked out with these cams, Jon - they were spot on to factory specs. Maybe that was the norm for them from back in the day compared to now, so installing them straight up with the factory gears is definitely viable. Knowing what I know now, I'm glad that they were adjusted, and Ed had me advance them 12° (intake, that is). Speaking of which, here are the specs for them (along with a few others):

For anyone interested in getting their hands on them, here is a chart with the engineering numbers showing which position they are installed (also shown on first page):

In the stock position, here is a graphic, courtesy of Mark Olson's CamChart software:

In my case, with the intake advanced, here is how they look (this is a screen shot from Ed):

Just for another comparison, here are the stock Terminator cams:

Will be tied up with work for most of the day, so I'll pick up tomorrow where I left off !

 

[jrgoffin]

Maybe I missed it... Don't you need a solid lash adjuster so you don't measure crush of the lash adjuster versus compression of the valve spring? Either that or a very soft valve spring... Just enough to keep the valve closed, but light enough to not cause crush of the lash adjuster since there's no oil pressure keeping it pumped up.

I'm thinking of the procedure for degreeing a typical pushrod engine here. I had a solid cam roller lifter instead of the hydraulic ("squishy ") roller lifter to ensure absolute accuracy of measuring the .050 cam lift.

Yes, the solid lash adjuster is part of the TFS kit. It is listed in the third paragraph of Post #170 from the previous page, and mentioned again further down where the allen key is shown in the rocker arm.

Again: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-90100