Larry - You can go .030 over but I would keep it to .020 just so you have enough to bore it again in the future without having to re-sleeve the block.

 

That's max? .030? geez! they didn't give us much room to work....

Can it be re-sleeved for a larger bore?

Thanks, Kevin!!

 

Yes but you would need to go with a darton wet sleeve. with machine work and sleeves look at spending 3k...

when it comes down to it you can make 1000 hp easily with 4.6 or a stroker 5.0, so there really isnt any need to go bigger unless you want more torque and quicker spool, but all that can be overcome with a 2 step...

Just my .02...

Will

 

Little off on the price... 3400...

pic was too big... go here for installed pics...

Blocks : VT Engines, Inc., We make horsepower, not excuses

 

I do my own machining. I would just need to get the sleeves.....thanks!

 

If you do stock sleeves any machine shop can do it... Darton sleeves are different. You have to be certified by Darton to preform it correctly... or so I am told... I have seen a couple blocks done before with Darton sleeves on a honda motor. You could wiggle the sleeve's with your hand :shok: ...

Will

 

Larry-Check your pm's and if you can please give me a ring or send me a number to call you at.

 

Yes it can be re-sleeved for larger bores, your choice of Darton dry or wet sleeves. VT charges $1195 for dry sleeves and $2495 for wet sleeves installed.

 

Also a side note... darton sleeves are bought when you need to have extreme cylendar wall pressure.. 60 + intake PSI and above 5000 cyl wall PSI...

Even though you can bore them larger your maximum bore still "I believe" is in the .060 range. Not quite the investment you want for a few cubes.

Will

 

Yea...I can see your point....$3500 for .030 might be a bit over the top!!!......

 

Okay.....now that we have established the maximum bore......next question...what is the maximum stroke without having to clearance the block or slot the bottom of the sleeves......?

 

I plan on going with a big bore setup using the wet sleeves. Hell I'm even thinking of going with a stroker crank to match, can we say 5.2L.:blink: I still think the 5.4L GT block would be a better setup and maybe even cheaper in the end, but I think getting a TT setup to fit would be way more work and even might cost more in the end...

 

I would like to go with a huge bore and a really long stroke, but I'm thinking that I would also like to keep my house...so, a .030 bore and what? for a stroke...what's the max? anyone know? SCAT will be annoucing their stroker kits in March. I know there are some out already...but what is the max wihtout having to cut the block or have an oil pan that looks like the Hindenburg.....

 

Do you have the block handy? Maybe I can trade you an opinion for a fact?

The fact I am looking for is what the dimension of the cylinder sleeve would be? I have been poking around for a while and it seems to me that descriptions of the block's dimensions are often confused with the stroke of the crank (either that or the pistons on even the 302 stroker would be coming out of the cylinder entirely as they are greater than the numbers I have seen)...

So, I am curious to get the number from someone with a bare block in front of them?

The "opinion" I can offer is that beyond ~300 ci stroke:
a. isn't worth it
b. makes for a noisy engine (piston slap/scuff)
c. increases wear (see "b")

Now, correct me if I am wrong - the new math gets me here and there... but this is because:
a. you start getting the piston skirt well outside the bottom of the bore
b. the cylinder is slightly conical (smaller at the top than the bottom)

Some have argued around here that ANY stroke is gets you extra wear and isn't worth it. I am still trying to pin down the actual dimensions to know if I agree with that or not, but regardless, its a risk.

You might be better off with a little more compression and/or boost...

 

I'm not sure I would go with more then just a 5L stroker. Which is why I am looking at the Big Bore and then maybe adding the stroker to bring it to 5.2L.

 

I will let you know the dimensions of the sleeve on Saturday...that is when I pick up the block. Piston slap can be overcome if you machine and fit the piston correctly and use the proper length piston. I have stroked many motors and never had that problem....I stroked a 440 Mopar for a guy about 5 years ago to 499 inches and he is still running around the streets with that motor in the car....not rebuilt as yet....and he does race it every weekend the track is open.

 

It helps to have such toys/skills around:wink: I wish I did:thongue2:

That is one of the reasons I have been wondering about the actual dimensions, so that I could understand if the scuffing/slapping people are talking about is because of lego-block engine building or because they really are pushing the dimensions that far?

The 5.0 stroker is a 3.75 stroke in a stock bore (3.552) while the 4.6L is a 3.543 stroke.

p.s. 440-499 is only a little over 10% (302 is ~8.7% for the 4.6L), so I guess I am not surprised it is a big issue, but it is all about how much room you have left over to start with...

 

FYI

Stock stroke is: 3.54"
Stock bore is: 3.55"
Most big bore kits use 3.7" bores
Most strokers us a 3.75" stroke

The already square bore/stroke is what causes strokers to have excessive piston slap.With the current piston selection it isn't as bad as it once was. But, a stroker 4.6 or 5.4 will pull the pistons all the way to the bottom of the bores.

 

One of the key components in a good solid stroker is the right piston. If the wrist pin is located too far down, that will make the piston too long and you get tremendous side loading....I will go with a two ring piston if I have to, to get the wrist pin location right. If you go with a two ring piston, then you just make the bore just a tiny bit tighter. There's lot of tricks to getting this right so that the motor is dependable, bulletproof, and makes the power you want. Way too many to post here....but it can be done!

 

Agreed on all counts. The piston manufacturers have learned a lot since they first started building stroker 4.6 engines and have improved piston designs by leaps and bounds.

 

Larry, what is the reasoning behind going to a teksid block? From what I hear the stock 4.6 is just as good.

 

Larry, what is the reasoning behind going to a teksid block? From what I hear the stock 4.6 is just as good.

Personally I don't buy the arguement that the stock block is just as good.
When people start to put down the numbers that people have on the Teksid then they will make a believer out of me.

It may be the best 4.6 that Ford has ever produced but let's not forget that Ford didn't produce the Teksid.
It would be pretty embarassing for someone from Ford to say that an outside manufacturer can make a better product than they can.

 

Jeff, the stock block is a good block...but the Teksid is by far a stronger molding. Look at the valley between the heads. notice the metal that is missing on the stock block. In an aluminum block, warpage and torque twist can kill you...all the parts and bearings in the motor can be perfect, your machining can be a work of art, the build can be done in a sterile environment, and then the first time you get that block hot and stress it with 16 # of boost, you get a little warpage and then you have this nice, neat trail of parts down the strip.

Bottom line is that I got it because it is a stronger mold and it was cheap....and they are getting rare.....

Since I have absolutely no self control when building a motor, I like things to be as strong as they can possibly be....as I said earlier, in 40 years of racing, I have never been able to blow up any motor I've built..this will not be the exception.

 

Jeff, the stock block is a good block...but the Teksid is by far a stronger molding. Look at the valley between the heads. notice the metal that is missing on the stock block. In an aluminum block, warpage and torque twist can kill you...all the parts and bearings in the motor can be perfect, your machining can be a work of art, the build can be done in a sterile environment, and then the first time you get that block hot and stress it with 16 # of boost, you get a little warpage and then you have this nice, neat trail of parts down the strip.

Bottom line is that I got it because it is a stronger mold and it was cheap....and they are getting rare.....

Since I have absolutely no self control when building a motor, I like things to be as strong as they can possibly be....as I said earlier, in 40 years of racing, I have never been able to blow up any motor I've built..this will not be the exception.

Does the teksid have the webbing? I can't remember if it or if the stock does.

 

Didn't they have a few years where a certain stamping of the teskid had known flaws...?

 

The Teksid has the webbing, the stock block looks like it has webbing but they removed metal and left the webbing. The Teksid weighs 9 pounds more than the stock block

 

I think that both "views" have their merits. Personally, I go by what has worked for me in the past, without arguement, truly a small sampling. However, by never deviating from my philosophies of how to build a motor, I have never lost one. So, I will stick with that.

Rule #1 Choose parts that will handle a minimum of 2 times the stress you are going to put on them.

Rule#2 Make sure all machine work is within a .0001 tolerance

Rule # 3 Balance all rotating components to within 1/10th of a gram

Rule #4 Polish all parts before assembly

Rule #5 Floroscope all parts before assembly to check for cracks and air bubbles

Rule #6 Check all oil passages and water passages for blockages, even if it is a new block

Rule #7 A high volume oil pump is far better than a high pressure oil pump. I always use a stock rating oil pump.

Rule #8 Have all torque wrenches and measuring tools calabrated before using them (especaily if you haven't used them in a while)

Rule # 9 Don't let your friends help you build the motor

Rule #10 Take your time. Take lots of breaks, don't get in hurry.

 

I think that both "views" have their merits. Personally, I go by what has worked for me in the past, without arguement, truly a small sampling. However, by never deviating from my philosophies of how to build a motor, I have never lost one. So, I will stick with that.

Rule #1 Choose parts that will handle a minimum of 2 times the stress you are going to put on them.

Rule#2 Make sure all machine work is within a .0001 tolerance

Rule # 3 Balance all rotating components to within 1/10th of a gram

Rule #4 Polish all parts before assembly

Rule #5 Floroscope all parts before assembly to check for cracks and air bubbles

Rule #6 Check all oil passages and water passages for blockages, even if it is a new block

Rule #7 A high volume oil pump is far better than a high pressure oil pump. I always use a stock rating oil pump.

Rule #8 Have all torque wrenches and measuring tools calabrated before using them (especaily if you haven't used them in a while)

Rule # 9 Don't let your friends help you build the motor

Rule #10 Take your time. Take lots of breaks, don't get in hurry.

I agree with everyting you stated but on these cars a high pressure (stock 2005+) oil pump is required for the VCT to function properly.
I believe you are aware of the issues 2005RedGT had with his.
http://www.modularfords.com/2005-mu...ssues-please-read-if-you-are-building-a-3v-47455.html?highlight=engine+oil+pump

 

I'll be following your tread religiously since I'm planning a stroked SB as well, FYI Manley has a 1.2 mm offset wrist pin piston avalaible for the 3V, I imagine this is to minimize the sideload moment (angle) due to a long stroke, the site mentions that it is to mimic actual 3V pistons?
What rod lenght are you going to use in order to achive what CR?

 

I have no specific build plans as yet....still working on the research...Peter, the stock pump is a high pressure/high volume pump. As I said, I always use a stock oil pump.

 

Just making sure Larry.
It sucks when something that simple throws a wrench into well laid plans.

 

I'm planning on going with a high pressure billet 3V oil pump, there are a couple of vendors carrying them, I don't know if you plan to set your bearing clearance for 10W oil or not, I will, so I'll need higher pressure/flow...I might be wrong here so double check ...