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Discussion starter · #421 · (Edited)
Nothing real new to post, but I did get another short video clip. This one is just about 45 seconds and had to be short since the other one would never upload due to its size. The engine starts ridiculously smooth - probably just as smooth as stock, and there are no unusual noises anywhere. I have had the stethoscope all over the block and all is sounding well. On a sound note, hopefully this came out decent enough to ascertain that everything is well (the lighting isn't that great though):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/uc8t34lb8ty80ma/P1050686.MOV?dl=0

I have not gotten the Vampire hooked up yet, but will try and finish that in the next week or so. I did also get a new [temporary] tune loaded in since the idle was terrible with the 60# injectors once it went in to open loop. The idle is perfect now and there is bit of a deeper rumble from the exhaust thanks to the extra air moving in and out. Once it warms back up here, I'll plan to get on a dyno to have the tune tweaked, especially since I'll be curious as the numbers. That will probably be at least another two months, unfortunately.

There was one "Oh $hit!" moment when it came time to back out of the garage and pull back in straight: I couldn't get the transmission in to gear. I had a suspicion that even with the firewall adjuster out about as far as it could go, there was still just a bit too much cable slack. Fortunately, that turned out to be the case, and a new quadrant did the trick.

Here's the new one from FRPP under the outgoing Fiore piece. You can see that the FRPP part pulls the cable about 1/2" more forward in the upper slot and will go even further in the bottom one. I had to reference the quadrant install instructions from Maximum Motorsports (their MMCL-6) and had forgotten that they include a spacer in their kit in case a situation like this arises. I probably could have fabricated something, but it was just as easy to get the new quadrant from Summit since they are so close.

Image


This quadrant did the trick and the transmission moves through the gears effortlessly now. Even better, with the engine turning, the clutch pedal feel is definitely lighter than stock. I think I'll really dig the Centerforce clutch. At the moment, the firewall adjuster is back in to about half its length, and the TOB is riding on the fingers with just a slight bit of pressure. When it comes to driving, I may adjust it slightly, but so far it seems fine.

Otherwise, this project came together fast and is essentially wrapped up other than tweaking the tune. It was somewhat sad last weekend seeing the original engine go, but I know it is heading to a good home!

 
Discussion starter · #423 ·
I love those cargo bags - great for wrapping engines and important stuff! If asked, I'll deny it though;)
 
I have a question about rod side clearances:

I have been assembling my engine and the rod side clearances seem a little tight to me. The Sean Hyland book says to set all steel rods at .011". The instructions for my Manley Pro-Billet rods says to set it between .015 and .025". Neither source explains if that's just the measurement between the two rods on one journal or if that's the overall measurement counting the spaces on the outside of the rods too... which I'll explain below.

I can get a .008 or .009 feeler gauge in between each set of rods on all 4 journals. I can also get a . 004" or .005" feeler gauge between the outsides of each rod where they butt against the crank counterweights. So what is my measurement?

If I add up all three measurements (both outside spaces, plus the space in the middle) I get between .016" and .019" overall which is just about perfect. But, if I just use the measurements between each pair of rods (which is about .0085") then the clearance is too narrow... Right?

Input is appreciated.
 
Mike, the rod side clearance is measured by inserting a feeler gauge between the two rods while they are assembled to the connecting rod journal. The clearance is usually measured this way during assembly. Prior to assembly the clearance is measured by measuring the width of the connecting rod which should be 0.940". The measurement for both rods on a single journal is as displayed below from Fords Terminator Engine Ass'y manual, in the red square below;



Ed
 
Discussion starter · #426 ·
Ed beat me to it: I was going to grab that same page out of the assembly manual for reference since I didn't add much detail on it back the beginning.

I'm out traveling for work and don't have any of my notes handy, but mine spec'd out within the limits shown above (converted to inches, of course). I checked the gap between the rods for the heck of it, but I didn't take note of those numbers. In any case, I don't recall anything out of the ordinary since everything fell in to place.
 
My personal experience mirrors Joe's. Manley is very good about maintaining big end and small end rod dimensions. I suspect because of their Tier 1, supplier relationship with Ford. Ford on the other hand is very good about maintaining crankshaft dimensions including rod journal width, so the clearances should be baked in so to speak — unless someone did a custom, modified and competition modification to something (not recommended).

Ed
 
Thanks for the diagram.

The .15mm to .45mm side clearance in the diagram converts to .006" to .018". But it is a little confusing because it shows that this is measured between the side of the rod and the crank counterweight... Not between the two rods like everyone says to measure.

I'm going to lightly sand the sides of my rods to gain some clearance... I think mine are too tight by about .002" to .003" per rod, no matter how I look at it.
 
Thanks for the diagram.

The .15mm to .45mm side clearance in the diagram converts to .006" to .018". But it is a little confusing because it shows that this is measured between the side of the rod and the crank counterweight... Not between the two rods like everyone says to measure.
The clearances should measure the same whether you measure between the rods or between either rod and it's adjacent crank pin cheek, Mike. If they do not then there is some Sherlock Holmes work required to determine why.

I'm going to lightly sand the sides of my rods to gain some clearance... I think mine are too tight by about .002" to .003" per rod, no matter how I look at it.
Nothing wrong with this as long as your target clearance falls into the Ford spec. The oiling system is essentially an engineered leak. By adjusting clearances at various points you control the volume of oil delivered to the different bearing surfaces. You want to be both cautious and deliberate if you begin to modify the flow characteristics of this engineered leak called the oiling system.

Ed
 
Based on that then perhaps I don't need to make any changes... If the factory spec is as little as . 006" rod side clearance then I'm okay across all journals... But still a little tight according to Sean Hyland specs, and very tight according to the Manley specs. I think I need to try and hit the middle of the mark here and open up the clearances just a touch.... Like .002 to .003"

Thanks for the input.
 
Based on that then perhaps I don't need to make any changes... If the factory spec is as little as . 006" rod side clearance then I'm okay across all journals... But still a little tight according to Sean Hyland specs, and very tight according to the Manley specs. I think I need to try and hit the middle of the mark here and open up the clearances just a touch.... Like .002 to .003"

Thanks for the input.
The mid point is a good target Mike. That is where the pieces were originally designed to operate. The tolerance figures identify the upper and lower limits the design engineer was comfortable with.

Ed
 
I got everything taken apart and reassembled today (can't be working on it tomorrow during the Superbowl) The sanding of the side of the rod big ends was pretty easy. I just used a sheet of 150 grit sandpaper laid on a flat steel table. Then I worked the rods in a circular motion, taking plenty of measurements along the way (kind if like ring filing). All rod side clearances are now exactly .012" I know it's under the Manley spec of at least .015" ... However, it's exactly in the middle of the Ford spec of between .006" to .018", and virtually the same as Sean Hyland's recommendation of .011"

One more little tip I stumbled upon tonight. The oil slinger was being a real pain to try and push on the crank ... Now I see why the diagram (posted previously in this thread) shows an installation tool for it... However... I found that the big end of my tapered 3.552" ARP piston ring compressor is EXACTLY the right size to fit that oil slinger. I was able to press it right on with some moderate pressure using this trick.
 
Discussion starter · #434 · (Edited)
Since Ed posted the page from the assembly manual above (Post #425), it reminded me that I neglected to add some interesting trivia concerning the engine blocks. On the upper left is a block that lists piston bore diameters and assigns them a "grade" from 1 through 3. Here's the chart again to have handy:



Corresponding with those grades, the bores are measured and actually marked on each block in what is referred to as the "Pin stamp". This stamp starts off with eight digits (in the case of these eight cylinder blocks), and each digit represents each bore in order, one through eight. My Aluminator block stamp looks like this, with each cylinder given a "2":



Since each "2" corresponds to 3.5517 - 3.5522" (the chart is in millimeters), it made sense when each of the bores in my like-new block was measured. It was perfect to go with the 3.555" piston. For anyone scoring a used block, it will make for good reference to see where yours started and where it is when ready for a "new" build!
 
Joe,
That's interesting info... Made me go look at mine... Guess I got a couple "3" cylinders in my donor block, but mostly "2's"... But it had only 34k miles so it only needed a hone.


I got most of my long block assembled today... Now just got to tackle accessories, clutch, tranny, and hiding the wiring.


By the way Ed... What do you recommend the torque value to be for the crank stud mod? I looked at some ARP charts and it seems like it should be about 150 to 160 Ft. Lbs.
 
Go over to the Complete Modmotor ARP Fastener Listing thread on page 1 of this forum Mike and also in the TToC under the Engine Builds section. It will have a downloadable pdf of most of the ARP H/W for our engines. It is missing a few things like cam tower studs and flywheel bolts. The pdf will show the torque or stretch tightening spec targets for everything including the crank snout stud, which I believe is 180 ft/lbs.

Ed
 
Discussion starter · #438 ·
Interesting Joe, did Ford "grade" all mod motor blocks?
I would guess this is the case, but I couldn't say that I am 100% sure. It does make sense though.

I'm hoping to go on a tour of the Brookpark Engine Plant here in Cleveland sometime soon (where Ford is currently producing the EcoBoost engines), so if That happens, I'll check out those blocks, too. Might have to do yet another "build" thread!
 
Discussion starter · #440 ·
I should clarify that all the V-8 blocks I've seen have been stamped. I'll assume it is the same for the V-6 as well, just never looked. I bet everyone with a V-8 block will be looking for sure now!
 
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