[slowyellow]

I will surely keep people posted. There's a wealth of knowledge here that I didn't know about. I've mostly kept to SVTperf over the years. I've currently got an 04 Cobra with a KB 2.8 LC Mammoth on it. I'd like the new setup to be somewhere around 800 whp if possible! Where did you get the drawings? Your research is spot on and a lot of that stuff is hard to find!

 

[eschaider]

Joe is a retired career CIA Field Officer, Geoff.

Just Kidding. He is actually a UAL pilot and an extraordinary Terminator enthusiast. Check out his website =>Home. The site is not arranged as a typical website, that is you can't post to it but, it is a treasure trove of information both public and Ford insider.

Be sure to check out Cobra Bob's site also, =>https://stangshiftergaskets.com/2003_2004faqs.htm

Bob has been with the Terminator guys from the beginning and has a very complete information database (and cool products) also.

Ed

 

[jrgoffin]

Where did you get the drawings? Your research is spot on and a lot of that stuff is hard to find!

Not so much C-I-A as Ed suggests, just a bunch of friends that were with S-V-T Those pages are all from the super-secret Romeo plant build manual. More stuff I've been glad to share, with a lot of it on my own site (as Ed also mentioned!).

 

[a stallion]

The Shelby GT-500 oil pump in next. There is an Oil pump section on my own site with a bunch of info, but I'll add some here. The latest Shelby pump (also the same as the Melling M360), is actually a 3V HV/HP version, but with a monster steel backing plate to keep oil from flowing out there due to flex. The pump can be purchased through Tousley or Tasca for about $75, which is a great deal (p/n DR3Z-6600-A). Also added to the mix is a set of billet steel gears from Boundary Engineering which were just over $200, making this a great bang for the buck.

While Boundary Engineering isn't as common as some of the other shops out there making these gears, I am fully confident that their gears are every bit as good, if not better than the others. If you get a set in your hands, you'll most likely think the same. The company's owner, Travis, had this to say from another thread:

"...I manufacture and design the gears myself. These are made in America, made by me actually. There aren't many that actually know how to design a trochoidal gerotor pump, but I'm one of them. I didn't hit the copy key, these use a unique pattern that mitigates the torsion moments on the teeth and creates a bigger pumping chamber. We have thousands of my designed gears floating in different vehicles, and many house name my brand. I challenge you to find one that has failed."

Fine by me. Anyway, here are the billet gears next to the powdered metal stock set:

[iurl="http://www.modularfords.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135665&d=1443180823"]

[/iurl]

Adding these gears to a pump is a no-brainer: unscrew the back plate, remove the old set, and insert the new. This pump in the picture is actually another 3V pump that I had and decided not to use, but you get the idea:

[iurl="http://www.modularfords.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135673&d=1443180901"]

[/iurl]

The steel backing plate goes back on easily on the actual Shelby pump and the screws get torqued down to 89 in/lbs. Before mounting it, I also added a small bead of anaerobic gasket maker around the port just to keep it completely sealed with the block (some "upgraded" pumps will have an o-ring here):

[iurl="http://www.modularfords.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135681&d=1443181051"]

[/iurl]

The pump initially attached with three bolts, with a fourth (lower right) added when the timing chain guide is bolted on. You also have to align the two flats inside the gears with those on the crank, but it's pretty straightforward:

[iurl="http://www.modularfords.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135689&d=1441971301"]

[/iurl]

Once the pump and windage tray are on, it's time to add the pickup. The nice thing about this 3V block is the full-length tray - an "upgrade" over the standard 4V half-length tray. The ARP studs are also specific if you use the tray, and it bolts right back on easily. For guys that have a WAP block and want to add the 3V tray, it's inexpensive through Ford (about $25) as 4R3Z-6687-BA. Here's how it looks:

[iurl="http://www.modularfords.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135697&d=1443181715"]

[/iurl]

With regards to the pickup, the OEM Terminator (4V) version is pefect since the length allows it to sit about 1/4" above the pan bottom (also measured this with Silly Putty in my Canton pan). Additionally, it is considered a "high-flow funnel type" by Ford, so it never hurts to have the ability to get more oil up top. Here is a comparison picture with a newer style on the left (I have no idea why Ford made the change):

[iurl="http://www.modularfords.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135705&d=1443181964"]

[/iurl]

One caveat now with the 4V tube is the "scraper" that runs along the front edge. If you are using the full-length tray, it will have to be cut off, which is easy enough. As an alternative, the '05-'10 (3V) pickup will work since the depth is identical, but I believe it is the newer style as seen above left (this one in the picture is for the 5.8 Shelby). In any case, here is a side view of a new pickup - part of the scraper was simply removed with a cut-off wheel tracing the contour of the tube with about 1/2" clearance:

[iurl="http://www.modularfords.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135713&d=1443182409"]

[/iurl]

Once that is done, it bolts on to the bottom of the pump (don't forget the o-ring!) and to a "stand" on the #4 cap. With an upgrade to the ARP stud kit, you have to have about 0.070" removed from the stand, but that is shown clearly on the instruction sheet that comes with the stud kit (the machine shop handling my block took care of this for me). Here's the final product, and in the second picture, you can also see the new rear main seal plate in place as well:

[iurl="http://www.modularfords.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135721&d=1443182669"]

[/iurl]

[iurl="http://www.modularfords.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135729&d=1443182765"]

[/iurl]

From here, the Canton "road race" pan, 15-784 (which was the same used on the 2000 Cobra R), was mounted up. There is also an Oil pan section on my site with some more information there, but bolting on the pan is real simple. Since the rear main seal plate is attached with a bead of RTV under it (I used the Permatex black, which is the same used when the engines were originally built) I also added two small beads at the rail joints before putting the gasket and pan in place. All my gaskets were from FelPro, by the way.

All done, with the timing chain guides added as well:

[iurl="http://www.modularfords.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135737&d=1443183419"]

[/iurl]

Stay tuned for the rest of the timing gear!

Would the above 3V oil pump fit the iron 03-04 terminator block without any modifications or changing the pickup ? My engine is low milage 15k on it. My worries is because I am just going to crank the boost high and shooting for 700+hp. I wanna be in the safe side . I like your bundle for the ford me 3V oil pump and boundary engineering gears just wasn't sure if I need anything else to make it work . Also, should I upgrade the oil pan to one you bought 9 qt one ?

 

[jrgoffin]

The pump is a direct bolt-in replacement. As for the oil pan, you can't go wrong with one that is larger (well, for the most part), especially with the HP/HV pump, but it also depends on what you plan to do with the car. My Canton pan is the "Road Race" version which was used in the '00R, but they also have one that is for drag racers.

 

[a stallion]

The pump is a direct bolt-in replacement. As for the oil pan, you can't go wrong with one that is larger (well, for the most part), especially with the HP/HV pump, but it also depends on what you plan to do with the car. My Canton pan is the "Road Race" version which was used in the '00R, but they also have one that is for drag racers.

That's awesome !! The HV/ HP pump comes with a pickup, or I can reuse my stock terminator pickup?

I will definitely upgrade pan to Canton . My car is street / drag car, but in the future I would like to take her to the road course track . What's the different between the Road race version vs Drag racing version. Since my car isn't a dedicated drag car only which one you recommend?

What's the Boundary Engineering part number?

Thank you and sorry for all the questions

 

[jrgoffin]

You'll want to stick with the OE Terminator pickup since it's a "high flow" version. As for the pans, you'll have to check with Canton as to which one will be of benefit to you. I don't drag race, so the road race pan was a no-brainier, especially since I can still get on it and no worry about oil not being where I need it. Be sure to check with Boundary on the correct gears - Travis will know which gear to send based on what pump you use.

 

[a stallion]

I appreciate your time my friend . Thank you

 

[SleepingBeauty]

Who ever has this fixture now PM me. I would like to buy it.

 

[a stallion]

You'll want to stick with the OE Terminator pickup since it's a "high flow" version. As for the pans, you'll have to check with Canton as to which one will be of benefit to you. I don't drag race, so the road race pan was a no-brainier, especially since I can still get on it and no worry about oil not being where I need it. Be sure to check with Boundary on the correct gears - Travis will know which gear to send based on what pump you use.

Which windage tray you're using?

 

[jrgoffin]

Which windage tray you're using?

It's right there in the post you quoted, along with the original: the 3V full-length version.

 

[jrgoffin]

Wanted to add a quick update with some more on John's Vampire since I snagged a quick video clip of the gauge doing its thing. The engine is still running incredibly well, and within the next month or so (when the outside temps come down), I'll get on a dyno for a new tune. Otherwise, have about 350 miles on the engine and although I'm not getting on it too hard, it still pulls whenever the pedal is pushed!

In any case, managed to get this brief clip a few weeks back while doing a real light pull in to boost. It gets a little fuzzy (trying to hold my phone while watching the road), but you can see the LED's flicker as the Vampire kicks in. I noticed absolutely nothing detrimental with the engine, and after seeing the clip, John agreed that all is working as it should.

Clip hosted from PhotoBucket (with one screen shot below): http://vid118.photobucket.com/albums/o108/jrgoffin/20160731_112341_zpsbgarp0vo.mp4

Just in case that one no longer works, this should do it:https://www.dropbox.com/s/9sesypezg1l580k/20160731_112341.MP4?dl=0

I'm still a bit fuzzy on what's going on behind the scenes, but here is a cut-and-paste from an e-mail John sent me that should fill in some blanks (my S1 & S2 switches are both down, as an FYI):

The signal that goes to the gauge shows the amount of knock retard.

If mode switch S2 is UP, the signal would be a d.c. voltage that varies with the amount of retard, from 0-1.3v. The signal can change once every two revolutions, so the LED would move slowly.

The gauge would show one LED on, and the position would indicate the amount of retard. Because all cylinders are being retarded equally, the same LED is being hit eight times in a row, so it wold be very bright.

If mode switch S2 is DOWN, the signal is a pulse. The height of the pulse can vary from 0-1.3v. For an eight cylinder engine, the width of the pulse is 90° of crankshaft rotation. This signal can change with each cylinder.

Assuming S1 and S2 are both DOWN, If one cylinder is retarded 6°, and no others are retarded, you would see the 6th LED on, every time the retarded cylinder fires, so it would be dim and look like it's blinking.

As software re-advances toward the stock setting, you will see the LED move one position every twenty revolutions.

If two cylinders are retarded equally, the LED would be on twice as bright, since it is turned on twice in one engine cycle.

If a third cylinder is retarded by a different amount, you would see two LED's on, but one would be twice as bright as the other. Again, the position indicates the amount of retard.

I might try to get a bit more video down the road, but that may wait until I get the tune modified. More to come for sure.

 

[eschaider]

John's stuff is just flat impressive Joe!

Watching it work like that in your video just demonstrates how precise his knock detection and correction is. There is simply no other unit available that can both detect and correct the knock. The speed with which John's system reacts is nothing short of impressive. I can not recommend this system highly enough for supercharged gas engines. It is the difference between loosing a motor to the occasional bad tank of gas or living to fight yet another day.

The Vampire should be the absolute very first purchase a supercharged gas engine owner makes. It will save you more than an order of magnitude it's price in parts that you would have otherwise lost to detonation.


Ed

 

[mvk13]

Wanted to add a quick update with some more on John's Vampire since I snagged a quick video clip of the gauge doing its thing. The engine is still running incredibly well, and within the next month or so (when the outside temps come down), I'll get on a dyno to have the temporary tune tweaked. Otherwise, have about 350 miles on the engine and although I'm not getting on it too hard, it still pulls whenever the pedal is pushed!

In any case, managed to get this brief clip a few weeks back while doing a real light pull in to boost. It gets a little fuzzy (trying to hold my phone while watching the road), but you can see the LED's flicker as the Vampire kicks in. I noticed absolutely nothing detrimental with the engine, and after seeing the clip, John agreed that all is working as it should.

Clip hosted from PhotoBucket (with one screen shot below): http://vid118.photobucket.com/albums/o108/jrgoffin/20160731_112341_zpsbgarp0vo.mp4

View attachment 152505

I'm still a bit fuzzy on what's going on behind the scenes, but here is a cut-and-paste from an e-mail John sent me that should fill in some blanks (my S1 & S2 switches are both down, as an FYI):

The signal that goes to the gauge shows the amount of knock retard.

If mode switch S2 is UP, the signal would be a d.c. voltage that varies with the amount of retard, from 0-1.3v. The signal can change once every two revolutions, so the LED would move slowly.

The gauge would show one LED on, and the position would indicate the amount of retard. Because all cylinders are being retarded equally, the same LED is being hit eight times in a row, so it wold be very bright.

If mode switch S2 is DOWN, the signal is a pulse. The height of the pulse can vary from 0-1.3v. For an eight cylinder engine, the width of the pulse is 90° of crankshaft rotation. This signal can change with each cylinder.

Assuming S1 and S2 are both DOWN, If one cylinder is retarded 6°, and no others are retarded, you would see the 6th LED on, every time the retarded cylinder fires, so it would be dim and look like it's blinking.

As software re-advances toward the stock setting, you will see the LED move one position every twenty revolutions.

If two cylinders are retarded equally, the LED would be on twice as bright, since it is turned on twice in one engine cycle.

If a third cylinder is retarded by a different amount, you would see two LED's on, but one would be twice as bright as the other. Again, the position indicates the amount of retard.

I might try to get a bit more video down the road, but that may wait until I get the tune modified. More to come for sure.

Good stuff bud! I'm sold. C'mon tax time!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[painlessauto]

The J&S unit is an absolute must for anyone pushing the limits. I purchased the knock finder gauge. Love it. Here is a video of mine while dialing it in.

 

[jrgoffin]

John's stuff is just flat impressive Joe!

Watching it work like that in your video just demonstrates how precise his knock detection and correction is. There is simply no other unit available that can both detect and correct the knock. The speed with which John's system reacts is nothing short of impressive. I can not recommend this system highly enough for supercharged gas engines. It is the difference between loosing a motor to the occasional bad tank of gas or living to fight yet another day.

The Vampire should be the absolute very first purchase a supercharged gas engine owner makes. It will save you more than an order of magnitude it's price in parts that you would have otherwise lost to detonation.

Ed

It's definitely an item I was not only glad to add, but something I am equally intent on showing off, Ed! I know you dig it and have been a big supporter, and knowing it is doing what it is doing behind the scenes definitely makes it a must-have. I hope all the guys that have these projects in the works will be supporting John, especially since it is to their benefit.

Now if I could just get more miles on the engine to keep the fun factor up! Have meant to give you a buzz in recent weeks, but the plate has been full at home still. I suppose if I can get up to 500 miles before winter storage time that will be good. In the meantime, I'll try to have more up after the intended dyno session and tune tweaking as soon as I can!

Good stuff bud! I'm sold. C'mon tax time!

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

Definitely make it a priority!

The J&S unit is an absolute must for anyone pushing the limits. I purchased the knock finder gauge. Love it. Here is a video of mine while dialing it in.

Another thumbs-up there!

 

[John@J&S]

Thanks for the kind words everyone.

Joe:

How much boost were you runnig when it activated? Do you still have the knobs set to pull timing with boost?

 

[eschaider]

Thanks for the kind words everyone.

Joe:

How much boost were you runnig when it activated? Do you still have the knobs set to pull timing with boost?

Thank you for an extraordinary product, John.

Ed

 

[Wicked46]

I'm getting ready to install mine once my car is on the road again. Rather than using the gauge, I'm choosing to datalog knock which i believe can be done using the 0-5v signal. Maybe John can chime in on this and how to set that up...

 

[John@J&S]

The range is 0 to 1.3v, in ten increments.

In individual cylinder mode (S2 down), the signal can change with each spark event, so you would need a very fast logger to see everything. A slow logger may miss the amount of retard or the number of cylinders being retarded, but will show when it occurred, which may be enough to help tune.

In retard all mode (S2 up), the signal can change once every to revolutions, so a slow logger should be able so show the amount of retard, as well as when it happened.

To log, you will need a 3.5mm STEREO male plug. Connect the "Ring" and "Sleeve" terminals to the input and ground of your logger. Ring is the signal.