[jrgoffin]

The tool collection for the degreeing process is complete, now just have to set aside some time for the big day, especially since I know I'll be conferring with Ed here.

I had grabbed the TFS "supplemental" kit a few weeks back, and the timing wheel with the ProForm crank adapter is shown in the previous post. The TFS kit is really a bonus since it includes the lash adjuster & tool, a much necessary extension for the dial indicator, and a steel plate to mount it. The kit was $50 from Summit (you can also buy the lash adjuster separately for about $30, but this kit makes it easy to round everything up at once), under p/n TFS-90100:

Also necessary are the valve spring compressors, which I splurged for from Freedom Racing in a single kit for $160:

The OTC compressors are most likely easy enough to acquire, but I wanted to try this other kit, which is very high quality and simple enough to use. As far as price goes, this one is about the same as just the intake tool from OTC, so that made it a bargain and worth having. As an FYI, here are the two OTC versions (exhaust on the left, and intake on right):

When the step of checking PTV clearances come up, it was also easy to just grab a two-pack of lightweight springs from my local Lowe's for a whopping $4:

Checking for true TDC was enough enough once the degree wheel was mounted, and I discovered that with the OTC tool holding the crank, that position was off by 2°. On the way shortly, the rest of the process...

 

[RussZTT]

Haha.. We're confusing each other. Allow me to rephrase: you are basically comfortable with only putting 85 lbs of torque on those studs and totally worry free about the head gaskets not sealing and leaking compression into the cooling system or a blown head gasket altogether?

I put mine at 90lbs on my Teksid block. Let the motor sit for 24 hours, loosened them then torgued them again. It's been over 5 yrs now (DD) with no issues what so ever. And im at 842rwhp on pump gas.

 

[jrgoffin]

That is good to know. I'd imagine that 90 ft/lbs would be the upper limit of what most would consider the "safe" number, but 85 would also be fine to keep it on the conservative side.

 

[04DeadShort]

One of the sad things about a mod motor is the "work of art" pieces you mention are hidden within the motor and can't be seen in plain sight. But its a comforting feeling knowing they are in there doing their job. As I said before, great thread.

 

[jrgoffin]

One of the sad things about a mod motor is the "work of art" pieces you mention are hidden within the motor and can't be seen in plain sight. But its a comforting feeling knowing they are in there doing their job. As I said before, great thread.

Many thanks, and I'll be glad to keep this going until the project is wrapped up.

These 4.6 engines really are phenomenal, so as long as the good stuff is is working as expected, they can really be enjoyed!

 

[408Stang]

Went to Gibtec today and talked to Nick... (only about 30 minutes from my house). Got my pistons ordered for a 3v aluminator build.

You have to see Gibtec's shop... Billet stuff everywhere and they can build any piston you can think of. Why didn't I know about this before now. Thanks Ed for working on this.

By the way... Gibtec is scanning my 3v heads to get the combustion chamber shape and valve positions. Plus they have one of my 3v pistons for design work so they will have a 3-vlave option as regular design in the future.

 

[eschaider]

Gibtec has been sort of a top secret billet piston shop that the NHRA Pro racers have kept to themselves, Mike. The work they do is first class and the price points they hit for our stuff makes you scratch your head wondering how they can do this.

As you already know from talking with Nick at Gibtec, he is very approachable, easy to talk to and equally easy to work with. Nick has put a special effort into the design of these pistons for our engines. When you see the pistons all the words leading up to that point will be forgotten. The workmanship is impeccable and the finished product looks too good to put into an engine and hide from view.

I am glad you had the opportunity to meet the guys over at Gibtec. It is always good to be able to associate a name and face. It is even better if you can see the manufacturing facility and their capabilities. This kind of stuff is genuinely hard to communicate verbally but what you can see with your eyes and without using any words when you go to their shop tells the whole story.

What I can say is if anyone who is reading this thread has not ordered pistons for their build yet and is on the fence about these particular pieces, I seriously doubt that you can find anything that even comes close, at any price — they are just that good.


Ed

 

[BUZZ]

Wow, very nice write up and lots of good info.

 

[jrgoffin]

Gibtec has been sort of a top secret billet piston shop that the NHRA Pro racers have kept to themselves, Mike. The work they do is first class and the price points they hit for our stuff makes you scratch your head wondering how they can do this.

As you already know from talking with Nick at Gibtec, he is very approachable, easy to talk to and equally easy to work with. Nick has put a special effort into the design of these pistons for our engines. When you see the pistons all the words leading up to that point will be forgotten. The workmanship is impeccable and the finished product looks too good to put into an engine and hide from view.

I am glad you had the opportunity to meet the guys over at Gibtec. It is always good to be able to associate a name and face. It is even better if you can see the manufacturing facility and their capabilities. This kind of stuff is genuinely hard to communicate verbally but what you can see with your eyes and without using any words when you go to their shop tells the whole story.

What I can say is if anyone who is reading this thread has not ordered pistons for their build yet and is on the fence about these particular pieces, I seriously doubt that you can find anything that even comes close, at any price - they are just that good.

Ed

x1000, especially the last sentence!

Looking forward to visiting Gibtec the next time I have an overnight in Denver. Hopefully I can snap a couple pics as well.

Wow, very nice write up and lots of good info.

Many thanks! Should hopefully get moving on degreeing the cams soon, then it's time to get it all buttoned up and ready for the transplant.

 

[408Stang]

Speaking of degreeing cams... Can 3v cams be "degreed"... Because of the VCT I was thinking no... And plus there's no adjustment in the sprockets... The only thing I could do is move the chain an entire tooth... Which is like 7 degrees per tooth.

 

[eschaider]

Speaking of degreeing cams... Can 3v cams be "degreed"... Because of the VCT I was thinking no... And plus there's no adjustment in the sprockets... The only thing I could do is move the chain an entire tooth... Which is like 7 degrees per tooth.

They can Mike. There are two ways to approach the process.

Te first way is to lock out the phasers and put the cams where you want them, favoring bottom end, mid range or top end performance. This tends to discount the additional power you can realize from the VCT depending on cam sizing. The second way is to allow the VCT to continue to function and skew the VCT "window" to favor bottom end, midrange or top end.

With a turbo or a centri supercharged car you might be tempted to give bottom end a slight emphasis. With a belt driven PD blower you might be tempted to emphasize the midrange power or top end power because you are already marginal traction-wise in first gear.

FWIW a 21 tooth crank sprocket or a 42 tooth cam sprocket plays out degree-wise as follows. For the 21 tooth crank sprocket 1/21 of 360˚ works out to be just over 17 crank degrees per tooth. The exact number is 17.143 crank degrees. A 42 tooth top pulley works out to be 8.571 camshaft degrees per tooth. But, since one cam degree equals two crank degrees we need to multiply the cam degrees by 2 to convert to crank degrees. The means one cam sprocket tooth or 8.571 cam degrees is equal to 17.142 crank degrees. The difference in the third decimal place is the effect of rounding error.

Ed

 

[jrgoffin]

Hey, let's focus on the 4V stuff for now

Will need to get in touch with you - again - real soon, Ed!

 

[SVT_Troy]

Looking good man, it wasn't too long ago I was in a similar boat. Ed walked me through the degree'ing process. I also used a aluminator block but i did not do a rebuild. I wish I would have but that will come later.

How did you like the valve spring tool?

 

[jrgoffin]

Looking good man, it wasn't too long ago I was in a similar boat. Ed walked me through the degree'ing process. I also used a aluminator block but i did not do a rebuild. I wish I would have but that will come later.

How did you like the valve spring tool?

Thanks. The Aluminator block really is fantastic, and a step up from the Teksid even, despite what forum lore states. It should be a great running engine with the Gibtec pistons, '98 cams, ported heads, and all the gee-wiz stuff. Hopefully I'll confer with Ed soon to dial the cams in, and then it's just a matter of out with the "old" and in with the new.

As for the tool, it seems to be easy to use from what I've tried. You just have to swap the tips around when going from intake to exhaust, but that's not a big deal. With the intake you also have to set the tip left or right depending on which side of the spark plug hole you'll be on, but that is the same M.O. with the OTC version (the tip is removable there as well). In this case, it's nice to have the tool all as one, and since it's really well built, it was a worthwhile investment for sure.

 

[POPPAJ]

I'm sure that many of us(me)following this thread just don't have the ability to do a build like this even with the great instructions. Are there any engine builders that would follow these steps as a general rule just because that's the best way to do a build?

 

[eschaider]

I'm sure that many of us(me)following this thread just don't have the ability to do a build like this even with the great instructions. Are there any engine builders that would follow these steps as a general rule just because that's the best way to do a build?

Don't bet against yourself POPPAJ! There are any number of guys on this site that I goaded into doing this type of build for their own ride and it was an unqualified success. Do not sell yourself short! This stuff is not rocket science. It is patience, diligence and attention to detail - but not much more. You can definitely do it, BTW there are engine shops that give the same attention to detail but not surprisingly, you have to pay for the time to do this type of work. One of the best I have seen is L&M Engines (<=clickable) who will do the whole job for you soup to nuts.

Ed

 

[terminatorlou]

I had planned on having a local modular shop do mine as they do a lot of Cliff's, Tony's, Orson's engines, but Ed talked me into doing mine. Unfortunately, it was pushed off but Ed will always be on speed dial as well as other key members here.

 

[POPPAJ]

Thanks for the confidence Ed, you're one in a million. As far as selling myself short, I'm only 5'2".

 

[mvk13]

So is a 6th degree Tae Kwon Do master I know. Saw him drop a couple of 250# guys in sparring... Do It! ;-)

 

[eschaider]

I had planned on having a local modular shop do mine as they do a lot of Cliff's, Tony's, Orson's engines, but Ed talked me into doing mine. Unfortunately, it was pushed off but Ed will always be on speed dial as well as other key members here.

When you are ready to go just give a call Lewis.

Thanks for the confidence Ed, you're one in a million. As far as selling myself short, I'm only 5'2".

So is a 6th degree Tae Kwon Do master I know. Saw him drop a couple of 250# guys in sparring... Do It! ;-)

I am not so sure about the one in a million stuff but one of the things we try to do on this site is share knowledge and experience so each of us doesn't have to rediscover what others have already learned. These engines while extraordinary in the performance department are also among the more expensive engines someone can choose to build. The ability to share what really does work and what does not, along with where to get the right stuff the first time can help to manage those costs to a lower level than otherwise might be possible.

mvk13 has an excellent one liner about the Tae Kwon Do master. It is particularly apropos when we start to work with these engines.

BTW both you guys probably have first names. Share them with us and we will use them instead of your screen names - if you wish.

Ed