[jrgoffin]

Opinions aside as to which way is the right way to go, I went ahead and picked up the seal as well as the slinger: both from Ford. The rear main seal retainer (i.e., the cover plate) is standard for the 4.6, so I bought up a new one for this block and installed the seal (the one I had with the block is the "old style" with the groove in the back, so removing all the old silicone would have been a pain!). Before the flywheel goes on, I'll add the slinger as well just for the extra insurance.

I have heard of vehicles where the slinger was left off, but it was originally specified for the Terminator. Ed will probably chime in for sure!

 

[408Stang]

I'm glad you posted the diagram...

By looking at the schematic the "L" of the slinger faces inward toward the seal. With the flat surface of the slinger facing the flywheel.

I've seen many sites showing pictures of it facing the other way with the "L" outward toward the flywheel... And the flat surface of the slinger toward the seal. This seems to be incorrect according to the schematic you posted.

What I also want to confirm is that the slinger is supposed to grip the crankshaft and spin with it... Mine seems to be a very snug fit on the crank with very little tension on the outer circumference that touches the retainer plate.

 

[BLK_03]

I'm glad you posted the diagram...

By looking at the schematic the "L" of the slinger faces inward toward the seal. With the flat surface of the slinger facing the flywheel.

I see that opposite the way you do.

 

[Edmisten1]

Agreed. I see it this way too but didn't want to say anything lol

 

[408Stang]

To clarify... There is a line touching the shape that says "Seal"... The angle of the triangular portion of the shape faces inward as it should.

I also see the line touching the leftmost piece saying "slinger"...

But what is the polygon shape / item in between those two things.?

If the slinger is the skinny line item on the far left, then I agree the "L" faces out toward the flywheel.

If the slinger is the polygon shape in the middle then it faces inward toward the seal (like a tetris piece).

I did notice that the slinger fits either way. I hope someone can clarify this... It's not exactly easy to fix once assembled and in the car.

 

[408Stang]

Is this the Slinger?

 

[408Stang]

Or is this the Slinger?

 

[04DeadShort]

From what I've been told the slinger is actually closer to a wiper. The thought behind it was keep the crank wiped of debris before it ever reached the crank seal. One look at a rear seal plate on car with thousands of miles shows that the seal is in a rough environment. We use something close to this in the industrial world with our bearings, we simply call them shields.

 

[04DeadShort]

Or is this the Slinger?
View attachment 137681

That is the slinger.

 

[jrgoffin]

To clarify... There is a line touching the shape that says "Seal"... The angle of the triangular portion of the shape faces inward as it should.

I also see the line touching the leftmost piece saying "slinger"...

But what is the polygon shape / item in between those two things.?

If the slinger is the skinny line item on the far left, then I agree the "L" faces out toward the flywheel.

If the slinger is the polygon shape in the middle then it faces inward toward the seal (like a tetris piece).

I did notice that the slinger fits either way. I hope someone can clarify this... It's not exactly easy to fix once assembled and in the car.

The "shape" is the space between the slinger and the seal. From a cross-section, the slinger looks like an "L", and it fits with its outer edge just slightly below the lip of the rear main seal retainer plate. I'll have to look the drawing up for the seal, but it is pressed in to a depth of about 1/4", which leaves a space between it and the slinger.

Also, yes, the slinger is "pressed" on the crank flange, so it will spin with it. This is obviously not the case with the seal, which is a press fit in the retainer plate allowing the crank to spin within it - just the opposite of the slinger.

 

[jrgoffin]

Here's a quick pic of my slinger. The bottom face (sitting on my garage floor) will be towards the front of the engine. The upper edge of the inner lip will sit just below the chamfer of the crank flange, giving the outer edge (a flexible wiper) the slight clearance inside the edge of the housing as it rotates. Hope that helps!

 

[04DeadShort]

And since we are on the subject and its very easy to forget, put a film of oil seal lip. Wouldn't hurt to put a film on the crank also. I had a seal burn up in just a few hundred miles due to this easy miss.

 

[eschaider]

I am back in the States Joe (challenged arrival) so we can schedule some time whenever you are ready.

The whole slinger / no slinger issue is more of a personal preference sort of deal. Like Ken (04DeadShort) has already indicated the industrial seal guys call these things dust shields or just shields. They are used in harsh environments to protect the real seal and also the sealing surface on the shaft that the seal actually seals against.

Inside the bell housing (as we all know from changing clutches) there is a lot of clutch dust. Some of that dust contains oxidizers that will both harden (embrittle) the outer face of the seal and also oxidize the sealing surface on the crank immediately adjacent to the seal. Over time some seals will shrink from age, heat and also the harsh environment they live in pulling back ever so slightly from their original sealing surface.. When they do if there is no slinger present, the old sealing surface is exposed to the clutch dust and contaminents becoming pitted and oxidized from the harsh environment. It usually does not present a problem for the old seal because it has shrunk inward to a fresh sealing surface.

When you freshen the engine and dutifully replace that raggedy old seal with a nice fresh new one, its sealing lip lands directly on the now oxidized original sealing surface of the crank. Usually within the first week or so you begin to notice a slight weeping of oil that accumulates on the floor under the car. If you guessed it was the rear main seal you are spot on. That's the bad news. The good news (if there is any) is you don't have to pull the crank on these engines to replace the seal but you do need to use some scotch-brits to clean up the crank's rear seal surface before reinstalling the next new seal.

The oil slinger provides a nice protective cover keeping the clutch dust and other contaminants out of the seal area and protecting the crank's seal surface. At first it seems like a redundant piece of equipment but it turns out to be a very nice protective shield as Ken has already said. BTW I would use one even on an auto — very nice mechanical design out of Ford Engineering for a change, much better than 4 thread sparkplugs.


Ed

 

[04DeadShort]

Well said Ed 👍

 

[408Stang]

Thank you for everyone's replies. I think we have it sorted out now.

Next question... On the Cobra Engineering upgraded timing chain dowls... What kid of torque spec is appropriate for those. I normally wouldn't hesitate at 25 ft. lbs. on an M8 stud, but that seems high to me... Whereas the factory spec of 96 in. lbs. for the smaller stud seems too low. I'm thinking around 18 ft. lbs. with red loctite?

 

[eschaider]

Well said Ed 

Thanks Ken but you nailed it first. All I did was run around with the explanation perfume bottle spraying it in the air.

Thank you for everyone's replies. I think we have it sorted out now.

Next question... On the Cobra Engineering upgraded timing chain dowls... What kid of torque spec is appropriate for those. I normally wouldn't hesitate at 25 ft. lbs. on an M8 stud, but that seems high to me... Whereas the factory spec of 96 in. lbs. for the smaller stud seems too low. I'm thinking around 18 ft. lbs. with red loctite?

Don't get too frisky with the torque wrench Mike. Normally 25 ft/lbs on an 8mm fastener would be OK. The problem here is the base material we are anchoring in is aluminum and we are decidedly short of 4 diameters of thread engagement. If you look at a head stud and divide the 50mm thread length by the 11mm thread major diameter we are 4.5 diameters of thread engagement. On the timing chain pivot dowels we are woefully short of that number.

This is one of those occasions where we want discretion to be the better part of valor. If you use your 15 to 18 ft/lb target torque and use blue Loctite instead of red you will be better off. The blue will more than adequately lock the stud and a 15 ft/lb or so TQ target will not strip out the threads from the aluminum anchors in the block. If you use red loctite you might not be able to get the dowels out w/o damaging the threads. I used 15 ft/lbs and blue loctite on my own block

Ed

 

[jrgoffin]

And since we are on the subject and its very easy to forget, put a film of oil seal lip. Wouldn't hurt to put a film on the crank also. I had a seal burn up in just a few hundred miles due to this easy miss.

That's standard practice, and the Romeo drawing that shows its installation (I can post it if necessary) indicates that for both the front and rear seals.

I am back in the States Joe (challenged arrival) so we can schedule some time whenever you are ready.

The oil slinger provides a nice protective cover keeping the clutch dust and other contaminants out of the seal area and protecting the crank's seal surface. At first it seems like a redundant piece of equipment but it turns out to be a very nice protective shield as Ken has already said. BTW I would use one even on an auto - very nice mechanical design out of Ford Engineering for a change, much better than 4 thread sparkplugs.

Ed

Sounds good Ed, thanks for chiming in! The slinger seems to be more of an extra insurance policy, but if it keeps dust off the rear seal, it's a no-brainer to use it. For as little as it costs, it would be silly to leave it out, but I imagine more guys use it than not.

Will be on the move Monday through Wednesday, so hopefully I will touch base then. Glad you made it back!

Thank you for everyone's replies. I think we have it sorted out now.

Next question... On the Cobra Engineering upgraded timing chain dowls... What kid of torque spec is appropriate for those. I normally wouldn't hesitate at 25 ft. lbs. on an M8 stud, but that seems high to me... Whereas the factory spec of 96 in. lbs. for the smaller stud seems too low. I'm thinking around 18 ft. lbs. with red loctite?

Like Ed mentioned, don't go too crazy. I had commented as well in the post where I installed mine (first page) that I used 18 ft/lbs, which is the standard for the 8mm threads in all the front drive pulley bolts. I was being optimistic that I wouldn't have to pull these again an ended up putting a drop of red loctite on, but if they do ever have to come out, I can hit them with some heat. In any case 15-18 ft/lbs will do the trick.

 

[jrgoffin]

As an FYI, here are a couple more drawings:

 

[BLK_03]

Leave it to Ford to make an installation tool for that piece lol

 

[Edmisten1]

Guys I have a question concerning this oil slinger debate. First, I bought my car new; the engine has been unmolested until now. I know that the guy who built my engine did not put in the oil slinger. I just paid him a visit to talk to him about this. He told me (and I will quote as best I can) "I've done many of these 4.6 engines and I've never even seen that slinger so I've never added it". I asked him specifically about my car since he just did it and it would be fresh on his mind and again he said no, the only thing present in the retaining plate was the rear main seal, that oil slinger wasn't there. I said are you certain? He said absolutely. Had it have been there I would have seen it and researched it to figure out what it was. And like I said, the motor has never been touched. Soooo, that means my car did not have one from the factory. Is this one of those things that a certain run number had and others didn't have?? For example, the 4 thread spark plug holes. My assembler had a 5.4 that he was building and he pointed out that the rear main on my engine was like the 5.4 and it has as lip facing outward that is a shield/guard against contaminants but no slinger. My engine is still on the stand and now would be the time to add the slinger but it clearly did not have one from the factory so I'm really questioning whether to add it or not now... You guys have any comments on this? Why was mine missing from the factory? Add or not to add?