[hylander]

That's not the extent of it. He is wire tapping whoever he wants without oversight. It is against the law. I don't care if you want to sit there and give up your rights like the idiot Germans did for Hitler. It is not alright with me to give up mine. Wake up before it's too late. We no longer live in a free democracy here. We are continually losing our position as one of the best countries in the world in any category you can think of. Dollars rule and any means to go after them are alright. Your children are going to live to see the US implode just as the Soviet Union did. It's coming and you all need to open your eyes.

First off, the US is not a democracy. Contrary to popular belief.

Second, I am not an idiot like the Germans.

Thirdly. What 'rights' have you given up? Name one right you still do not have? Privacy? You have privacy. No one has taken it away. Free speech? you still have that? So, name a right that has been taken away please.

 

[hylander]

Anyone see the history channel own the 9/11 conspiracy theorists? Great show.

It is ashame however, that our country seems to be dividing into two camps. The nanny state morons who are gladly giving up privacy and all their rights willingly, in some cases like Onstar, actually paying to have there every move monitored. There on one side.

the people on the privacy side of things seem to be going completly overboard in the other direction.

To me, the truth is in the middle, and the hard part is how do we get the wack jobs from the extremes back to a position that really makes sense.

For the record, I think anyone who is still behind this administration is a complete flaming idiot.

They started a war that didn't need to be fought, in such an incompetent manner that it appears it can not be won. Unlike Viet Nam, however, losing this war will have grave grave consequences.

JT, so I am a complete flamiong idiot because I am still behind this administation? Thanks for judging me. Shows good character.

I am behind the administration. Not on everything. I do not follow blindly. Do I agree with the war. Actually, I do stand behind the war. For several reasons. 1st. If atrocities are committed, I believe it is the responsibility of any superpower to put an end to it. Hussein was torturing and murdering his own people. Look what he did to the Kurds. I also think we need to go into Sudan as well and put an end to the genocide there.

I believe we should do something other than talk about Iran as well. Iran only knows force and will respond only to force. They have proven they careless about idle words.

Do I agree with all Bush has done, no. Do I believe in alot of what he has done and is trying to do? Yes. Is he evil? No. Has he made mistakes? Yes. We all have. We are quick to point the finger at others because it is easy to do so, not realizing the great responsibility they have in protecting this country on a day to day basis.

 

[Johns01GT]

Thirdly. What 'rights' have you given up? Name one right you still do not have? Privacy? You have privacy. No one has taken it away. Free speech? you still have that? So, name a right that has been taken away please.

So we still have freedom of speech? Why don't you ask the Dixie Chicks who criticized the president if we have freedom of speech.

 

[hylander]

If you sacrifice Liberty for Security, you deserve neither.. We are a Country of men, governed by laws..

By all means, wiretap the terrorist.. But first prove they are a terrorist by appearing in Court, and making a paper trail under the Umbrella of Justice, to make sure Constitutional abuses can not take place.. Plus, inform the court of the name of the person your trying to tap.. Show probable cause for this action..

This is not a political issue, so you should not continue to used the catch phrase Liberal to gain support for your radical ideas, which seem to contradict the Rule of Law, and the Constitution Hylander...

Even a Liberal wants to have a proven terrorist conspirator wiretapped.. A true Conservative wants you to prove it first..

Again, I have no problem with them wiretapping individuals who are communicating with known countries who harbor terrorists or with organizations. I think this protection of so called 'rights' sometimes goes to far. In some instances, that has gotten us in trouble more than once.

People throw out the word rights and violation of rights to easily nowadays and people get so scared to say anything because of it. Criminals and politicians use it to their advantage whenever they can.

 

[hylander]

So we still have freedom of speech? Why don't you ask the Dixie Chicks who criticized the president if we have freedom of speech.

Did they say or or did they not. They were allowed to say it and people were allowed to voice their opinion about it.

Freedom of speech at it's finest.

 

[Johns01GT]

Being banned from radio stations is freedom of speech at it's finest? I think you need to open your eyes my friend.

 

[hylander]

Being banned from radio stations is freedom of speech at it's finest? I think you need to open your eyes my friend.

You need to open your eyes,. It is the right of the radio station to do so. The Dixie Chics can say whatever they want. They still have freedom of speech. No matter how you try to spin it.

 

[JT]

JT, so I am a complete flamiong idiot because I am still behind this administation? Thanks for judging me. Shows good character.

I am behind the administration. Not on everything. I do not follow blindly. Do I agree with the war. Actually, I do stand behind the war. For several reasons. 1st. If atrocities are committed, I believe it is the responsibility of any superpower to put an end to it. Hussein was torturing and murdering his own people. Look what he did to the Kurds. I also think we need to go into Sudan as well and put an end to the genocide there.

I believe we should do something other than talk about Iran as well. Iran only knows force and will respond only to force. They have proven they careless about idle words.

Do I agree with all Bush has done, no. Do I believe in alot of what he has done and is trying to do? Yes. Is he evil? No. Has he made mistakes? Yes. We all have. We are quick to point the finger at others because it is easy to do so, not realizing the great responsibility they have in protecting this country on a day to day basis.

This administration has done more than make a few mistakes. On a foreign policy level, they have made just about every mistake possible.

Catch or kill bin laden? Fail.
Deter iran from WMD's? Fail.
Deter North Korea from WMD's? Fail.
Invade a country that had a viable WMD program? Fail.
Perpetrate a successful regime change? Fail.
(by successful I mean to a regime more favorable to the United States).
Prevent terrorist activity and training in Iraq? Fail.

What have they succeded in doing, Paving the way for a shia superstate in the heart of the middle east, that's what. A budding breeding and training ground for terrorists. A larger more dangerous theocracy more likely to work with Al Queda and terrorist orginizations that Saddam ever was.

As a secular government in a muslim country, bin laden hated Saddam almost as much as america. Too bad for us he was much smarter than Bush and company and got one of his enemies to take out another of his enemies, while riling up local populations to join his cause against the west.

Iraq under saddam and in Sunni control was the perfect counterbalance to Iran. Bush Cheney and this completely idiotic administration among other things, destroyed the balance of power in the middle east.

Sounds like you think the solution is now to invade iran?

Good luck with that.

 

[JT]

I don't buy many conspiracy theories, but if you take a moment to look into the ones associated with 911, there are alot of unanswered questions... especially the rate in which those buildings fell - free fall speed.

JT, I agree with your post 110%

The best list of unanswered questions (not lunatic ravings) I have seen is here:
http://news.independent.co.uk/fisk/article2893860.ec

Not that I think all of them are unanswered, for example the lack of jet parts at the pentagon can be explained by watching this video on youtube:

YouTube - F4 Phantom Vs. Wall

 

[hylander]

This administration has done more than make a mistake. On a foreign policy level, they have made just about every mistake possible.

Catch or kill bin laden? Fail.
Deter iran from WMD's? Fail.
Deter North Korea from WMD's? Fail.
Invade a country that had a viable WMD program? Fail.
Perpetrate a successful regime change? Fail.
(by successful I mean to a regime more favorable to the United States).
Prevent terrorist activity and training in Iraq? Fail.

What have they succeded in doing, Paving the way for a shia superstate in the heart of the middle east, that's what. A budding breeding and training ground for terrorists. A larger more dangerous theocracy more likely to work with Al Queda and terrorist orginizations that Saddam ever was.

As a secular government in a muslim country, bin laden hated Saddam almost as much as america. Too bad for us he was much smarter than Bush and company and got one of his enemies to take out another of his enemies, while riling up local populations to join his cause against the west.

Iraq under saddam and in Sunni control was the perfect counterbalance to Iran. Bush Cheney and this completely idiotic administration among other things, destroyed the balance of power in the middle east.

Sounds like you think the solution is now to invade iran?

Good luck with that.

Wait a second. ....... So you are saying all of that is Bush's fault. That he caused ALL of that? Let's see France and Germany and Russia who supplied equipment to help build the equipment for centrifuges had nothing to do with helping these countries in their quest for WMD?

Come on.... So easy to blame a political administration because you hate the party.

Um.. North Korea. Possibly withdraw of WMD.. Success maybe.....

Deter Iran from WMD? Please, oh please tell me what Bush or anyone else could do to deter Iran from WMD? Wipe Israel off the map for them? Surrender the US to them? Please tell me. This I would love to hear.....

Please be realistic on some of these. I agree with you on some of the others. But these are way off base.

 

[JT]

Wait a second. ....... So you are saying all of that is Bush's fault. That he caused ALL of that? Let's see France and Germany and Russia who supplied equipment to help build the equipment for centrifuges had nothing to do with helping these countries in their quest for WMD?

Come on.... So easy to blame a political administration because you hate the party.

Um.. North Korea. Possibly withdraw of WMD.. Success maybe.....

Deter Iran from WMD? Please, oh please tell me what Bush or anyone else could do to deter Iran from WMD? Wipe Israel off the map for them? Surrender the US to them? Please tell me. This I would love to hear.....

Please be realistic on some of these. I agree with you on some of the others. But these are way off base.

First of all I am a registered republican.

Second, France, Germany and Russia were supposed to kill bin laden?

Third, If the US wasn't involved in a war that didn't need to be fought, the other members of the "axis of evil" may have been a little more concerned about military action and more amenable to stopping their WMD projects.

So to answer your question, as the leaders of the worlds lone superpower, GW Bush and company are completely responsible.

Further, with regard to iran and iraq under saddam, would one or the other have stood by while the other developed WMDs? No way, not after the bitter 8 year 1,000,000 casuality war they recently fought. How nice it would have been to stand on the side lines while two of our main enemies killed off each other?

 

[hylander]

First of all I am a registered republican.

Second, France, Germany and Russia were supposed to kill bin laden?

Third, If the US wasn't involved in a war that didn't need to be fought, the other members of the "axis of evil" may have been a little more concerned about military action and more amenable to stopping their WMD projects.

So to answer your question, as the leaders of the worlds lone superpower, GW Bush and company are completely responsible.

Further, with regard to iran and iraq under saddam, would one or the other have stood by while the other developed WMDs? No way, not after the bitter 8 year 1,000,000 casuality war they recently fought. How nice it would have been to stand on the side lines while two of our main enemies killed off each other?

No, France, Germany, Russia were supplying equipment to help Iran produce Nucleur 'fuel'. Heck, Russia was supplying Hussein in Iraq with night vision goggles prior to the war. The UN was working with Hussein in a Oil for Money kickback scheme.

If you think Iran would have ever been concerned what the world thought about them pursuing nucleur weapons, you are way off base there. Their president has pretty much said since coming into power he could careless what anyone says and has received support openly and under the table from communist and democratic regimes.

This cannot be blamed solely on Bush. To do so, would be an injustice to what goes on in the rest of the world with other countries and what they do. I am not definately not saying Bush is guiltless here. I think the war was probably started for the wrong reasons. I would have approved more of it, if it was for the human rights violations Hussein committed against his own people.

 

[MSP]

While some of you staunchly defend the Republicans, lets view a reality check..

YouTube - Senator Larry Craig Busted Soliciting Gay Sex

Now, we know there are alot more of this type of demonic behavior going on.. This is why most Republican Senators and Congressman can be compromised when it comes to votes.. This is why they must follow the party line and vote.. This is what wiretapping is all about.. This is who they are using it for, so they can blackmail them into voting for ridiculous laws such as the Patriot Act..

I am sure there are Democrats with secrets who are blackmailed into votes.. Joe Lieberman anyone?

There are more.. Lets face it guys, this Country is run by perverts and pedophiles..

So its not too late for some of you to wake up and recognized the 'Mark of the Beast" when you see it.. Souls which have been compromised by the "Mark of the Beast", tend to gravitate toward innocence.. This is witnessed in the number of Republicans which desire young boys..

Lets all grab hands for prayer! Our Father....

 

[MSP]

And don't fight me on this, or I will turn this thread into a video archive of Gay perverted Republican videos which are in the thousands...

 

[hylander]

While some of you staunchly defend the Republicans, lets view a reality check..

YouTube - Senator Larry Craig Busted Soliciting Gay Sex

Now, we know there are alot more of this type of demonic behavior going on.. This is why most Republican Senators and Congressman can be compromised when it comes to votes.. This is why they must follow the party line and vote.. This is what wiretapping is all about.. This is who they are using it for, so they can blackmail them into voting for ridiculous laws such as the Patriot Act..

I am sure there are Democrats with secrets who are blackmailed into votes.. Joe Lieberman anyone?

There are more.. Lets face it guys, I Country is run by perverts and pedophiles..

So its not too late for some of you to wake up and recognized the 'Mark of the Beast" when you see it.. Souls which have been compromised by the "Mark of the Beast", tend to gravitate toward innocence.. This is witnessed in the number of Republicans which desire young boys..

Lets all grab hands for prayer! Our Father....

Oh get off of it. Look at all the Democrats who have had scandals!

Sheeze, you need to knock this crap off of let's hate the Republicans. there are good and bad in each party. Neither one holds a candle to being above reproach, so quit the holier than though garbage please.

 

[hylander]

And don't fight me on this, or I will turn this thread into a video archive of Gay perverted Republican videos which are in the thousands...

Very Christian of you. And I am a Christian saying this and believe me, you are not acting like one.

 

[MSP]

Very Christian of you. And I am a Christian saying this and believe me, you are not acting like one.

I am just pointing out the facts my brother Hylander.. I know the truth hurts..

I'll be here for you when you get sick of defending them brother!!:good:

 

[hylander]

I am just pointing out the facts my brother Hylander.. I know the truth hurts..

I'll be here for you when you get sick of defending them brother!!:good:

Not going to debate you on this. But please do not call me brother. A brother of mine would not make threats like you do, nor push hate such as you do.

Anyways, this thread has pretty much degenerated now.

 

[MSP]

Oh get off of it. Look at all the Democrats who have had scandals!

Sheeze, you need to knock this crap off of let's hate the Republicans. there are good and bad in each party. Neither one holds a candle to being above reproach, so quit the holier than though garbage please.

I hate Democrats more than you! Don't get me started on Democrats please..

 

[MSP]

Not going to debate you on this. But please do not call me brother. A brother of mine would not make threats like you do, nor push hate such as you do.

Anyways, this thread has pretty much degenerated now.

Hylander, don't run away from this.. I know it hurts man.. I am sorry for calling you brother.. My apologies Sir.. Please don't run from this.. Be strong right now..

Sometimes truth is the only way in which we can see the light.. Take small steps man..